Conscientious Objector

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07 Dec 2015 13:11 - 07 Dec 2015 13:14 #212310 by
Conscientious Objector was created by
Phortis Nespin said

I believe that as a citizen, it is your duty to serve, and if you want to claim conscientious objector, NO GUNS FOR YOU! After all, if you don't want to protect your country and your freedom, you shouldn't be privileged to be protected by it.


This struck a note and I didn't want to derail the thread it was posted in.

I was a conscientious objector, my number was called and I was assigned alternative duty. I believe alternative duty was serving you/my country.

I have to leave for work soon but will be able to check in during the day.

Play nice. :)
Last edit: 07 Dec 2015 13:14 by .

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07 Dec 2015 13:12 - 07 Dec 2015 13:14 #212311 by Edan
Replied by Edan on topic Conscientious Objector
Indeed, there are many ways to serve one's country.

Besides... I don't think disagreeing with the manner with which a country chooses to defend itself can be considered not wanting to protect one's country..

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Last edit: 07 Dec 2015 13:14 by Edan.
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07 Dec 2015 13:25 - 07 Dec 2015 13:27 #212315 by
Replied by on topic Conscientious Objector
During the Vietnam Era the Selective Service recognized 'peace churches'. The Society of Friends (Quakers) was so recognized and a member of a Quaker Meeting that declared C.O. status was assigned alternative duty. In 1972, I was composing my C.O. letter to the Selective Service; attending the Lake Forest Friends Meeting. In January 1973, the draft ended and so the letter became moot.

Dr. T. Canby Jones, the Religion and Philosophy Department Chair at my undergraduate college, Wilmington College (Quaker), was interred in a camp during WWII because he was a C.O., with Japanese-Americans (citizens and immigrants).

Yes, service to one's country can take many forms.
Last edit: 07 Dec 2015 13:27 by . Reason: punctuation

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07 Dec 2015 15:02 - 07 Dec 2015 15:03 #212323 by
Replied by on topic Conscientious Objector
That's rather asinine. So they think I shouldn't own a gun to protect myself against criminals all because I didn't want to serve in a war? I have no right to protect myself if I think it's absurd to fight and risk dying over a war with a cause that isn't worth risking my life over and because I didn't want to hurt people I don't even know? Not to mention there are other ways to serve. Sometimes countries are not right and will fight wars that are unjust. If you're country invaded another to take resources and influence it's government, you should serve your country? is that worth risking your life over? Is that worth hurting other soldiers, soldiers you don't even know? I don't think so. That's not a cause worth fighting for and really you should never fight unless it's for self defense.
Last edit: 07 Dec 2015 15:03 by .

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07 Dec 2015 15:39 #212330 by
Replied by on topic Conscientious Objector
While I'm not sure I agree completely with Phortis's actual words I do understand the point that he was trying to make, I think.

Gun ownership is one of the freedoms granted by being an American Citizen. Those freedoms are something that people died to earn and people continue to die to allow those freedoms to continue to exist. I think what he's saying is that if you aren't willing to help defend those freedoms than maybe you shouldn't get to partake in those freedoms.

On some level I understand that. Like when there was that picture going around of those women standing on the American Flag. The only reason that they didn't get punished for that was because of the freedoms guaranteed to them by the country that they were now disrespecting. Some might say that we should take some of those freedoms from them and see if they disrespect us after. (I'm not one of those people, just FYI. Though I do disagree with what they did for that reason). It's more complicated than that but I think that's close to what he's trying to say.

Now in my case I am ineligible for active duty due to a minor heart condition, hopefully I would still be eligible for this countries many freedoms under Phortis's idea.

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07 Dec 2015 15:47 - 07 Dec 2015 15:47 #212331 by Edan
Replied by Edan on topic Conscientious Objector
You can't decide that some freedoms are allowed for some and some not... Freedom to conscientiously object is one of those freedoms that soldiers died for...

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Last edit: 07 Dec 2015 15:47 by Edan.
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07 Dec 2015 16:15 #212338 by Breeze el Tierno
I do not believe there has been a war during my lifetime that actually served my country. A such, I don't believe helping to fight those wars would have served it.

This is not an attack on our service people. It is simply a comment on the moral failure that is war.
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07 Dec 2015 16:52 #212346 by
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I'm just not going to serve in a miitary taking orders from a government whose policies are all part of the economic power elites' long-range program of nurturing collectivism and fostering corporate socialism in order to ensure monopoly acquisition of wealth, because it would fade away if it were exposed to the activity of a free market that we're suppose to have. Serving your country today or in the last 50+ years is no longer serving or protecting your country. The wars we have fought and fight today are staged and instigated to further agendas and ideologies no soldier or average citizen would ever go along with if they didn't have their heads stuck in the sand.

This game is becoming exponentially dangerous as we are all becoming even more divided naturally but forced to faster and more intensely by design. Culture clashing and class warfare are being stoked by outsiders and insiders whom benefit from our implosion and tragedies. The elections, economy, media, wars are all a sham and manipulated to such an extent it really is like the Matrix, They Live, Idiocracy, the Galactic Empire hijacking the Republic under false pretenses. I mean, what would your grandparents and parents in WW2 think about American/allied companies like Ford and others financing Hitler's war machine, all Soviet technology resulting in MILLIONS of lives lost for profit and contracts. What would they think about today that their children who are straight up duped into volunteering to be sent to fight terrorists and dictators that are or were supported by those who send them to fight, or the whole idea of terrorists or dictators was an illusion for the simple project to build a pipeline or to have access to this or that, which is not even the interest of the government and people it serves.

What not just America needs (because there is a global corporate/banking/industrial cartel making up the international western power structure) but what the WORLD needs is a majority of individuals to CONSCIENTIOUSLY OBJECT TO THE WHOLE SHOW, that declare or act as if they want nothing from government, declares it will look after their own welfare and interests, or specifically a majority that finds the moral courage and the internal fortitude to reject the something-for-nothing con game and replace it by voluntary associations, voluntary communes, or local rule and decentralized societies.

I support the troops and to an extent respect those who still do believe in it all because those ideas are worth it if we can get that reality back, if we ever really had it all. It's just they are now used to motivate the unconsciously ignorant and indoctrinated which is very unfortunate. I would never advocate anarchy, violence and revolution as they just play into the hands of the self-prolcaimed masters of the universe. Better ways to serve are to actually volunteer in your communties or in places that need help like some here already do, becoming a peace officer is a much better choice than the military (maybe the National Guard I guess but the point is to find something to help the species as a whole). Starting your own radio show, newpaper, whatever it is to fight the information war with documented facts that will regrettably make many people angry but shake them from their slumber to realize the issues we face have nothing to do with pro-gun vs anti-gun, white vs black, Christianity vs Islam, NATO vs Russia, patriotism vs terrorism. Rather our conscious or unconscious refusal to take responsibilty for our lives choices and behavior myself absolutely included!, that on a collective level we don't communicate and just give in to the false ego society created for us allowing psychopaths and the most criminal elements of the species to make the decisions through their fronts and puppets, blah blah blah blah!!

Yes Rick it struck a note with me too.

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07 Dec 2015 17:09 - 07 Dec 2015 17:11 #212348 by Carlos.Martinez3
To a guy with a hammer everything looks like the head of a nail.

There are ways for others to serve. Not every one is a soldier and it's hard to break that mentality when you think about it. I had a very hard time walking after I got out of the army because people would stop and talk and slouch in public. Blew my mind! After time passes I have realized watching war from a 35 yo stay at home dad is scary. Watching TV is scary. So much pain and suffering and I think, how do big change this... and I realize that I am...I am in charge of my own life, yes there is bad. Very bad. Very sad. My solution is to start at home. Pass on the good pass on the hope, when some days there seems to be none. Be the light. Shine! When it gets dark, be the needed light!

Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
Last edit: 07 Dec 2015 17:11 by Carlos.Martinez3.
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