Tactical Experts Destroy the NRA's Heroic Gunslinger Fantasy

how many mass shootings have there been?

how many of those shooters had open carry or even concealed carry permits?

making the case that "open carry gun nuts" are probable mass shooters requires evidence too

Star Forge wrote: Throwing a tantrum will get you nowhere.

That wasn't a tantrum.

i dont at all see how the article has dispelled the "heroic gunsliger fantasy" when on the very first page was produced incontrovertible evidence that "the heroic gunslinger" has actually come to the rescue on many occasions

its been statistically demonstrated from a credible source that armed citizens save lives and interrupt criminal assaults on a regular basis

i would say the OP was countered

"more guns equal more gun crime" however is still a standing point, and not one i think that can be argued

Desolous wrote:

Lightstrider wrote: [
No one's second ammendment rights have ever trumped your right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and in actual fact it is because of this precious second ammendment that you have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, not to mention freedom of speech and the rest. Maybe you'd prefer to raise your grandchildren in China? I think most "civillians" as you call them arming themselves for defense or sporting uses don't seem to need qualifications as 95% of them aren't out killing people or doing anything crazy with their firearms.

Uh, yes they do. When Joe blow gun nut decided he wants to amass an arsenal, then open carry it around my children, when they ask me why that man has a gun and I wonder the same thing, when I watch him carefully. All the while wondering if he is gonna shoot up the place.

You tell me how that DOESNT infringe on my right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Better yet, you go find the family's and friends of whatever mass shooting is closest to you and ask them their opinion of the shooter s second amendment rights.

Next, I find it deeply disrespectful that you pull the 'why don't you raise your grandkids in China ' to a 4th generation American soldier. You wanna rethink that comment?

Finally, please explain to me how second amendment rights have contributed to my personal righta to free speech, etc. The US has not had an internal war in over 100 years. How does armed civilians protect me and my rights? Cite examples. Dead serious.

Dude you have to think like a criminal. A criminal isn't going to start shooting if there's other people having an open carry weapon. Why do you think people say "An armed society is a polite society."? I do think people should be trained a little before carrying a weapon so they don't hurt other accidently.

Criminals like easy targets. Why do you think there's so many mass shootings at GUN FREE ZONES? This is not difficult to comprehend. Of course they are going to go there because they know they are not going to have any resistance except for the police but by then it's too late.

So I think you're exaggerating quite a bit here. It's kind of obvious that gun control hasn't worked. Prohibition in general doesn't work. It didn't work the last few times, why would it work the next few times. So yeah, this whole gun thing is violating people's rights. You tell me how much safer you feel knowing you have no way to defend yourself against criminals who obviously got their guns through illegal means.

Forgive me for not having read all the rants, but I just want to say one thing quickly...

Guns are not the problem. People are. We don't have a gun problem, we have a societal problem. People want to kill and cause pain. That is the issue. If guns were outlawed, people would use some other weapon.

So what's to be done? I'm afraid I don't have the answer to that. People have been trying to kill each other off since the beginning of time.

Can we change?

Star Forge wrote: Dude, you talk like HK-47 from the KOTOR series, sort of.

Quiet, Meatbag.

Star Forge wrote: You must not understand how forums work. You start a thread, and then the rest is up to fate. Depending on the forum and situation, sometimes a moderator will reign it back in a certain direction, but the mods here aren't like that, at least not from what I've seen. Throwing a tantrum will get you nowhere.

Ah yes, because I demand that people confront specific problems with pro-gun ideology, I'm throwing a tantrum? Yes, I know how forums work, but this isn't just a random forum. This is the Temple forums and here is where Jedi discuss a variety of issues and are committed to not allowing our emotions guide our actions. To me, it seems like every time the issue of guns is brought up the pro-gun parties shout down the opposition without ever satisfactorily answer the issues that are brought up.

Jamie Stick wrote: Ah yes, because I demand that people confront specific problems with pro-gun ideology, I'm throwing a tantrum? Yes, I know how forums work, but this isn't just a random forum. This is the Temple forums and here is where Jedi discuss a variety of issues and are committed to not allowing our emotions guide our actions. To me, it seems like every time the issue of guns is brought up the pro-gun parties shout down the opposition without ever satisfactorily answer the issues that are brought up.

Demanding anything of people who tend to be naturally rebellious, you could fit yourself into this category, is not only pointless but will defeat its own purpose as they will all rebel against it. Next, who place is it to demand anything from anyone? That sound a bit arrogant. Try asking... may get better results.

Next, every time I have seen these topics come up, lines are drawn and sides are chosen and neither group wants to listen to anything the other group has to say. Only throw rhetoric, assumptions, the same repeated misinformation and close minded ideology. And both parties are guilty of it!

Jamie, I am not picking on you, yours just happens to be the last post I read before replying.

It appears to me that the people responding are very emotionally attached to this particular subject and need to step back for a few and let calmer heads prevail.

I own firearms, but I think that it is far too easy to aquire them here in the states. I at one point worked in a gun shop, and as long as you passed a limited background check and had cash in your pocket, you could walk out with a firearm the same day.

I personally think gun owners need to be subject to mandatory firearm education and training both pre and post ownership, and that they should have to recertify for ownership on an annual basis. This is how it works with cars in my country and I believe firearm ownership should carry a similar level of responsibility.

I also believe it is a persons god given right to defend themselves, but I believe they should be better prepared to do so rather than place their entire wellbeing on the functional operation of a .45

Self defense is 99% mental and 1% physical, and it would seem too many have that equation backwards.

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Kohadre wrote: I own firearms, but I think that it is far too easy to aquire them here in the states. I at one point worked in a gun shop, and as long as you passed a limited background check and had cash in your pocket, you could walk out with a firearm the same day.

I personally think gun owners need to be subject to mandatory firearm education and training both pre and post ownership, and that they should have to recertify for ownership on an annual basis. This is how it works with cars in my country and I believe firearm ownership should carry a similar level of responsibility.

I also believe it is a persons god given right to defend themselves, but I believe they should be better prepared to do so rather than place their entire wellbeing on the functional operation of a .45

Self defense is 99% mental and 1% physical, and it would seem too many have that equation backwards.

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I am also a firearm owner and carrier (if you couldn't tell) and I agree with this 100%. It is too easy and you should have to have more training.

One thing the gun control debate seems to bring out is both extremes. The "Ban all guns completely" and the "Guns for everyone!" opinions. Most people that I know are somewhere in the middle. Every single person that I know that owns a gun or thinks about owning a gun does go through quite a bit of voluntary training. (my dad manages a gun shop so that's not as limited a sample group as it sounds).

being ex military i'm already trained with firearms...of course i was raised around them as well and have known proper handling for most of my life and i'm almost halfway through training to be a certified master gunsmith...

i have no issues with requiring potential gun owners to go through firearms safety training, nor do i have issues with requiring background checks or mental health checks, nor do i have issues with making firearms safer....my only issue is with laws that strip responsible owners of their rights knowing full well that only law abiding citizens will be affected...criminals have no concern for the law, otherwise they wouldn't be criminals...