The Name Game

So, from some people I've talked to I can gather that there are some people who take issue with the statement "all lives matter" in response to the "Black Lives Matter" movement. Furthermore, I've seen some opposition to those who suggest "gender egalitarianism" as an alternative for the feminist movement. I'm going to offer my opinion here.
I can understand perfectly well the origins of these movements and how the titles reflect those origins. But in modern times we don't just worry about women's rights, we don't just worry about black rights; we have many people who have many different gender identities who feel as if they're discluded, and we have many people from many races who are persecuted. Heck, in some circles I've heard the term "straight white male" used as an insult -- how is that any better than using any other term in a derogatory way? It isn't any better and anyone who looks at it with any scrutiny realizes that.
So what's the issue here? Why not just unite movements under a general term, like "egalitarianism now" or something else -- one without an inherent gender, racial, political, religious, etc. identity associated with it? When issues come up which show that people for whatever reason are favored in a certain situation, people should react to that. But anyone involved with feminism should be outraged when they hear that women are favored in certain situations for being women, and anyone involved with Black Lives Matter should be outraged when they hear about hate crimes against homosexuals, Asians, or anyone else.
Why the names? Why the petty squabble? One group feels oppressed, so that means they should only focus on that one group and let everyone else fall to the side? No, I'm afraid that it doesn't work that way. It should be the goal of human civilization to promote acceptance and provide equality in all ways to all people, whether they're a white straight Christian man or a gay black Jewish transwoman. To avoid these issues, it would be easy to have just one big general movement for an egalitarian society instead of separated people fighting their own fights. But when this is suggested -- "all lives matter", "gender egalitarianism" -- it is met with outrage and dismissal. Why? I can't suggest a different name for a movement which is supposed to support gender equality because I'm a man? Some people have claimed that when I brought up the issue with them. I think that's just as bigoted as any other bigoted statement.

I'd like to hear your opinions on these movements and why you think their names should or shouldn't stay in place. How do you react to the "all lives matter" statement when paired with the "Black Lives Matter" movement? Tell me what you're thinking.

I think people arrive to situations with unique types and levels of types of bias which might define the paradigm they interpret someone. I agree with you though, people should be seen as people, heck even animals are people too
:lol: :pinch:

Perhaps something like;

1. Natural bias; acquired imbalance between being familiar from experience and being unfamiliar from inexperience.
2. Developed/Victim bias; acquired view through direct negative experience, resulting in fixation on distorted stereotype.
3. Artifical/Deliberate bias; adopted stereotypes which fit existing biases, or to fit/integrate into social groups one chooses to identify within.

All of these can be reinforced by unkept base emotions such as fear, jealousy and lust like the Christian seven deadly sins or Buddhist poisons, to empower these views into ones own self identity - ie the making of bigotry.

It's easy as children, because the brain is in its formative phase so everything is new and unknown, but as adults we are the product's of our previous thoughts, beliefs and actions..... so to some extent all 3 of those would probably exist in various ways. I'm just making this up from my own opinions and experiences mind you!!

So the issue is, when dealing with actual discrimination we need to both identify it but also promote and support change. The later often requires over compensation to achieve this 'education' to re-balance the imbalance (the discrimination).

So in my eyes, the concept of things like affirmative action is not discriminatory in action but technically discriminatory in nature (if action is taken as the entire process [magnitude] and nature as the experience [direction]) but because its intent is to counter discrimination and only to the end its nature is short lived as action and therefore needs to be valued in terms of its existence as a process - and not just its nature alone.

In that regard I think the forest is egalitarianism, but its made up of so many varieties of tree's people can get lost and only see the patch they are in and start calling the forest by the wrong name!? Which is why 'hate' groups form in reaction to 'love' groups HAHA.... jealousy, attention seeking behaviour, its a mix of distorted perspective (often deliberate) and human weakness masquerading as 'power' and 'unity' ie the mechanisms of fascism.

Same thing with the race issue in the US. At one stage I saw a comparison of the media on it where it highlighted how when a white person kills a black person its a racism problem and when a black person kills a white person its a mental health or poverty problem (I'm not suggesting that is accurate, in fact its probably inaccurate on both counts which makes it a good example) . I think its the same thing, just people misrepresenting the most accurate version of events to achieve some measure of power out of it for personal gain - whether its the media, lobby groups, corporations of political parties etc.

I like the idea of a more "encompassing" title that captures the equality of all. Humanism makes the most sense to me, but because that term has been hijacked by atheists who feel the need to bash religious belief or faith (which seems to be a natural part of the human condition), this term is untenable as well. At least for the time being....

I do believe that a different term that everyone can get behind is great idea, but i think we would all need to agree on terms first, and we are not very good at that as a global society.

I took a Women's Studies class when I was in college. They defined "masculism" as preferring male traits over female traits. I posited that if that were true than shouldn't "feminism" mean preferring female over male traits? They didn't agree, but later I realized that Feminism had come to mean something else so it was ok for them. But because i have such a hang up about labels and names I was never able to embrace it for myself.

Dude, I couldn't agree with you more. After all that has happened lately, I've come to the conclusion that nearly everyone is, to some degree, racist, sexist, or otherwise discriminatory. We can't help it in this day and age. People flock toward others who are like them. That's why there are black neighborhoods and white neighborhoods, or Italian neighborhoods, Irish neighborhoods, or Chinese neighborhoods. And so on...

Something I like to note is that when a white cop kills a black person, some people freak out. But when a black cop kills a white person, where are the protesters? Where are the riots?

We are a racist country here in the US. Not every individual is, but for the most part we still have a lot of problems and "-isms" to work out.

I stood right beside you with your thoughts Dude...

But, after reading the following post on Reddit, I see what the point of "black lives matter" is...

Before you read the quote, think of this...

+++++++++++
You are taking martial arts that I am instructing, and everyone is understanding and advancing, but you... YOu are trying, and just not getting it...

So, I tell you to come by for a couple of Saturdays, and I will give you a little one on one time, and we can see if that helps...

Well, Brenna says, "I could use some help too, why does he get one on one for free? You told me I would have to pay for private classes."

I tell Brenna, "Well, he is struggling, and could use an extra hand" Basically, I am saying that in this struggle of understanding martial arts, you need a hand up to be equal with your class peers...

Brenna says, "We all could use a hand up, so, can I come too?"

I say, "Well, I dont have the time to teach a whole other class, so let me check my scedule, and we can try to arrange something... Maybe we can work on it more in class..."

++++++++
In this example, you needed an extra hand, but because Brenna thought she needed the same attention as you, and requested it... I am placed in the position of denying her, to help you get even, thus giving you unfair extra training, as she might see it... Or, denying you, and treating everyone as equal, thus denying everyone extra help, and we can all learn itin class...

The problem I see with the 'black lives matter' movement, is that balck men dont respect their own lives, as shown by the killing of each other in gang fights and drive bys...

How is anyone going to respect someone who doesnt respect themselves or others?

I dont have any answers, only more questions... Anyway, here is what clicked the switch for me:



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The phrase "Black lives matter" carries an implicit "too" at the end; it's saying that black lives should also matter. Saying "all lives matter" is dismissing the very problems that the phrase is trying to draw attention to.

This is true....except for one tiny little problem. A great number of people who push for the "Blake lives Matter" phrase are attacking, insulting, and disrespecting all other lives with much profanity. Which turns the phrase into a negative instead of a positive. In fact....there are alot of Blacks who speak against the phrase.

In todays world we have to look at the social definition and application as much as we do the solid interpretation of text. And sadly the most vocal of idiots ruin a great many things.

What "Matters" is that we as individuals do what is right in our own little universe and set good examples to our children and grand children so that the future can, hopefully, be better then it is now.


...in my own opinion obviously..

TheDude wrote: How do you react to the "all lives matter" statement when paired with the "Black Lives Matter" movement?

By linking people who say "no no, not 'black lives matter' - 'all lives matter'" to this .

Adi Vas wrote: By linking people who say "no no, not 'black lives matter' - 'all lives matter'" to this .

This is witty.

Kitsu Tails wrote: This is true....except for one tiny little problem. A great number of people who push for the "Blake lives Matter" phrase are attacking, insulting, and disrespecting all other lives with much profanity. Which turns the phrase into a negative instead of a positive. In fact....there are alot of Blacks who speak against the phrase.

In todays world we have to look at the social definition and application as much as we do the solid interpretation of text. And sadly the most vocal of idiots ruin a great many things.

What "Matters" is that we as individuals do what is right in our own little universe and set good examples to our children and grand children so that the future can, hopefully, be better then it is now.

I understand where you are coming from here, but when you say "A great number of people" I think the information is a little skewed.

Our society gorges itself on media that distributes the extremes. We don't see the news about the 300 activists that fought for their cause in peaceful negotiation. We are fed the article about the one activist that shot his pistol through the court house window. And in this inherent ambiguity of our media we are misled in our view of situations. There are thousands of people fighting for the "Black Lives Matter" cause that are not extremists. Thousands that show up and wave their signs but hold that belief of the implicit "too."

So please don't let those that take this cause's name into the mud overshadow the multitude that are fighting for their just cause.

Is it not funny that you can spend weeks letting enough water gather in a barrel to drink from. But in one second, one drop of containment can ruin the whole barrel instantly? Food for thought.

Xesh wrote:

Kitsu Tails wrote: This is true....except for one tiny little problem. A great number of people who push for the "Blake lives Matter" phrase are attacking, insulting, and disrespecting all other lives with much profanity. Which turns the phrase into a negative instead of a positive. In fact....there are alot of Blacks who speak against the phrase.

In todays world we have to look at the social definition and application as much as we do the solid interpretation of text. And sadly the most vocal of idiots ruin a great many things.

What "Matters" is that we as individuals do what is right in our own little universe and set good examples to our children and grand children so that the future can, hopefully, be better then it is now.

I understand where you are coming from here, but when you say "A great number of people" I think the information is a little skewed.

Our society gorges itself on media that distributes the extremes. We don't see the news about the 300 activists that fought for their cause in peaceful negotiation. We are fed the article about the one activist that shot his pistol through the court house window. And in this inherent ambiguity of our media we are misled in our view of situations. There are thousands of people fighting for the "Black Lives Matter" cause that are not extremists. Thousands that show up and wave their signs but hold that belief of the implicit "too."

So please don't let those that take this cause's name into the mud overshadow the multitude that are fighting for their just cause.

Agreed...

Ya beat me to it...

Is it not funny that you can spend weeks letting enough water gather in a barrel to drink from. But in one second, one drop of containment can ruin the whole barrel instantly? Food for thought.

Excellent...

For every "Ye" there is a "Nay" the one who speaks the loudest gets the most attention. Simple fact. You even said so: "Our society gorges itself on media that distributes the extremes"

I am very well aware that there are those "Great number of people" who speak the term "Black lives matter" positively. However, that was not the point of my post

The point was simply to state what was said above. The phrase right now has a very loud voice, and that voice is negative. Even to the people it represents. Not positive...and that should be taken into account when we choose or not choose to use the phrase ourselves.

I personally refuse to follow the sheep shouting out catch phrases and flinging signs of protest. I instead choose to:

....set good examples to our children and grand children so that the future can, hopefully, be better then it is now.