No Pizza for gays

in the issue of the pizza wedding it is not a matter of the christians telling the couple they are not allowed to marry

it is a case of saying "we disagree with how you are using your freedom and therefore we will not use our freedom to support the way you use your freedom"

its not an issue of saying sexual orientation is a choice

certainly MARRIAGE is a choice
and usually the wrong one for everybody as far as i can see but thats another issue

but regardless of agreeing or disagreeing with how this pizza parlor uses its freedom
the right to say "no, i will not participate in this" is way more important than any rule saying "you have to serve everyone equally"

ive been involved with social justice since the late 90's
HRC was one of my favorite campaigns
i consider same sex rights to be the main civil rights issue of my generation
so thats what side of the basic issue i am on
but any sense of imposing one persons view onto another persons obligation beyond the point of saying you cannot actively harm others is a violation of someones basic rights

and i am not going to support that from any camp

imo, thats equality

and to my way of thinking the real issue is "why does anyone need any kind of permission to be married anyway?
if ten people all agree that they are married shouldnt that be enough for society to recognize them as a married group?"

the whole idea of weddings comes from the idea that marriage has to be co signed by an authority external to the individuals being married

this is the heart of the same sex marriage debate really because the issue is about being acknowledged by some external party

it translates into real world issues such as child custody and inheritance and insurance and other such important things

and yet the heart of the matter is not orientation specific but rather individual autonomy being recognized by the established social structure

thats my view at least

I figured this would become a debate about sexual preference… but I didn’t post the video for that. Nothing wrong with it. And like I said, I agree with lots of things he says, not all. And I could have been more specific… I agree with many things he has said over the course of all the videos I have watched. Not particularly in this video. His views have been shaped by a part of the Christian belief system and so a lot of his stands or opinions will be bias in that direction. I accept that as being what he believes; and it could change with time just as our beliefs can change with our understanding.

What I did like about it is the counter stance he seems to take to a lot of common Christian stands, tolerance. Where tolerance isn’t acceptance, it is often the first step.

I also liked how he realizes (I AM NOT SAYING HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN) all sins are equal in the doctrine which he believes. And then goes on by giving examples of how there are Christians who overlook their own children living in sin. Which, is far more common than they tend to recognize.

Personally, whatever anyone’s sexual preference is, in my thought, is their preference. May not be for me, but then again, I ain’t them and they ain’t me.

Another thing that I liked, which I didn’t see commented on, is that in the beginning, before he started discussing the topic at hand he gave fair warning to those that it might affect (in their belief) negatively. This is something that seems to be rarely done these days. From what I have noticed is that people just start spouting off with no regards of to whom or how it might be received.

I am completely comfortable with who I am and my preferences; and when people say negative things about “us” it does not make me uncomfortable. Most of you that know me also know that I love you all and consider a great many of you to be my dear friends. But if it bothers you then perhaps you might want to explore why? The answer could be, or seem, obvious or it could have a deeper seed. I don’t know… just felt like I should put that out there.

And of course, I am always willing to talk to anyone about any topic they wish. And I will always keep it confidential.

All in all, I enjoyed reading the replies and thought the discussion was, over all, intelligent, well thought out and well said. Thank you to all that participated.

While at work, I thought about my previous post.

I felt lead to ask people to examine why certain things bothered them but never stated anything further. I also said that, “I am completely comfortable with who I am and my preferences”. And that is what I was thinking about.

I feel I should add to it. Might even make for another topic.

I am not saying that anyone is wrong or they should think like me, let me just get that out of the way now. But, I do not see myself as heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, transgender, any of it. I see those as words people use to try and define things they don’t fully understand. And those that have found themselves in one of those defined words seem to struggle to better explain and make possible the understanding of those that really don’t want to understand. They seem content to slap on a label and move on. :blink:

I am not the way I am by choice, birth or product of experience; I just am. Sure, people can try to define where I am now by whatever means they chose but that neither takes away from or adds to who I am right now. May make them feel better… But I, and I think I could say “we”, are not exploring our paths, discovering who we really are and growing as individuals to make others feel better. They need to do that for themselves. And if they have questions I will be more than happy to answer them and help them how ever I can along their own journey.

If any of that makes any sense.

Thanks Wes! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He Haw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Am presently dancing to music!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So this thread, the thread "what kind of Jew are you" AND the thread about feelings, Jedi Way, and the future

share a common theme in my mind:

So the way I see myself, I try to see others.
It is like dump the profiling, data-basing, memory banks, stereo-types, etc. view of any human

SEE THE PICTURE AND NOT GET DISTRACTED BY THE FRAMES