thank you bazooka joe

For once I'm going to sound like the philosophers on the site I try not be like ,but I love all things behavior.

The point of this is that all behavioral traits are subjective which means they only exist in your head. You can see a coward where I could see courage. Some guy might pick a fight with another guy and that other guy might walk away and you could see a coward for avoiding a fight and I could see courage for doing the right thing when it was harder.

This is true for almost every behavioral trait you can think of ,but by seeing people ,in a positive way and letting them know you stop being a follower and you start leading.

I can see Gisteron's point if you're lying ,but my point is you can actually choose to see people in a different light if you choose to.

while one may see text on a screen another may perceive poisonous beans that inflame the fundament

some times we say things that may not be wholly true
and sometimes we decline to say things in their entirety
and sometimez we are not emotionally prepared for the moment that life puts us in and so we react in ways that we later regret

everything that you say Gisteron
shows that you value being honest
and speaking honestly

what i can tell you from my own experience
is that i have felt the shame of looking back
and wishing i had acted different

also

in the course of my life
i have been very blessed with opportunities to be afraid
and still keep moving in a self controled way

that is what people mean when they talk about courage

in seeing that i have been both cowardly
and courageous
i have come to understand that many courageous people
walk away from a moment feeling that they are cowards
when in truth they are being prepard for a greater kind of courage that they will need later

these people will find their courage eventually
probably
so it doesnt matter if you tell them this or that now or later
in the long run

but if you love them
wouldnt you rather they know sooner than later?

a coward is not a person who has lost a moment to fear
but one who has lost their entire lifetime
the difference is usually found not in their character
but in their self image

also
if you feel.that you are lacking in any trait that you admire
and so you choose to see or nurture that trait in others
one day you will notice that you now have the trait
that you worked so hard to help others see in themselves

so its not lying
its beliving

I am not an arbiter of what is a courageous or cowardly person. I used the word coward as a shortcut. The wrapper didn't say what courage or lack thereof is either. It just advocated to advice it to others eventhough you may lack it yourself, whatever that means in any one particular situation.

And it is not that I do not see any value in this kind of message. Indeed, chances are I see no less of it than anybody else. That is the reason I don't bother pointing it out, because you all can see it anyway and it would make for a rather boring discussion if all of us only had to say one and the same thing.

What I pointed to is that the wrapper didn't make any reservations. Of course I will advice against the wrong choices I made and of course I will support people and their ideas, but not across the board and not because I wish or expect blanket support to return back to me one day either. I only have my own perspective to work from and chances are I am going to do decide poorly from it at most turning points. Thankfully I happen to have people around with their own perspectives who see it as their moral duty to help me choose free from my biases and limits. In the same way I myself feel obligated to contribute my point of view in helping others. Blanket support is not helpful. If I wanted my own voice played back to me I would have recorded it

On a final note, I have been as much of a human in my lifetime as has anyone. As much as you, I, too, have had moments of courage and of cowardice. I have been dishonest more times than I could count and honest enough times as to regret some of them.
I do not speak proudly of the mistakes I made either. I recognize some of them as such, have corrected some, will have to do some again eventually and will surely do some more soon enough. Just because we all do them doesn't make them a good thing. We ought to accept our flaws as in acknowledge their presence, but also perpetually try and overcome them rather than welcome them and embrace them as the part of us that they inevitably are.

Gisteron wrote: I am not an arbiter of what is a courageous or cowardly person. I used the word coward as a shortcut. The wrapper didn't say what courage or lack thereof is either. It just advocated to advice it to others eventhough you may lack it yourself, whatever that means in any one particular situation.

And it is not that I do not see any value in this kind of message. Indeed, chances are I see no less of it than anybody else. That is the reason I don't bother pointing it out, because you all can see it anyway and it would make for a rather boring discussion if all of us only had to say one and the same thing.

What I pointed to is that the wrapper didn't make any reservations. Of course I will advice against the wrong choices I made and of course I will support people and their ideas, but not across the board and not because I wish or expect blanket support to return back to me one day either. I only have my own perspective to work from and chances are I am going to do decide poorly from it at most turning points. Thankfully I happen to have people around with their own perspectives who see it as their moral duty to help me choose free from my biases and limits. In the same way I myself feel obligated to contribute my point of view in helping others. Blanket support is not helpful. If I wanted my own voice played back to me I would have recorded it

On a final note, I have been as much of a human in my lifetime as has anyone. As much as you, I, too, have had moments of courage and of cowardice. I have been dishonest more times than I could count and honest enough times as to regret some of them.
I do not speak proudly of the mistakes I made either. I recognize some of them as such, have corrected some, will have to do some again eventually and will surely do some more soon enough. Just because we all do them doesn't make them a good thing. We ought to accept our flaws as in acknowledge their presence, but also perpetually try and overcome them rather than welcome them and embrace them as the part of us that they inevitably are.

Having just spent some time and energy in another thread on the merits of being offended or not being offended

I want to tell you what your problem is
you feel so offended at being lectured that you see lectures where they dont exist

if you read my initial post in this thread without that debilitating sense of being offended by lectures you wiill realise that no lecture was intended or implied

you made it up

why?

because you feel offended at being lectured
even now you are undoubtedly feeling offended as you read this lecture and i continue with it knowing that you feel this way because i am unconcerned with being offended
i am not offended that you misunderstood me
im not offended that you essentially called me a hypocrite and a liar

the cordiality and in fact the underlying sense of respect and comradere towards you which i felt and expressed in my earlier responses should bear this out for all to see

the lecture that i give now is tailored uniquely to you and it is a gift

which of course you may refuse

I will not be offended if you do

why are you so important that you should be freed from the discomfort of lecture?

What is it within you that is threatened by the lecture experience?

do you belive that your own understanding is so superior to that of everyone else that you are entitled to not only misinterpret their views
but to call them a liar and a hypocrite as a result not of them being a liar or hypocrite but as a result of your lack of understanding

and lecture them about the hypocricy of lecture

but that you yourself are above being lectured?

you in fact lectured me in your misinterpretation of a thread that i started because you projected your own feeling of being insulted at tthe idea of a lecture

so in my complete disregard for my own feelings of being offended at you calling me a liar and a hypocrite
and then lecturing me "in my own thread" on how hypocrites have no business lecturing people -

i responded specifically and repeatedly to you with patience and respect
and sincerely in the spirit of goodness towards you

though your feelings of being offended at lecture may interfere with your ability to be thankful for this gift i am giving you

let me assure you that it is a gift
and that my pleasure in giving it is a result of seeing for myself that i have impeccable in my responses to you -even this one-
and in my realisation that i have never given someone a gift quite this nature before

and that i can give this gift happily because i am unconcerned either with being offended myself or with you being offended by me

im sure it bugs the crap out of you that i keep telling you what a gift thiz is

I will lecture you now on why this is a gift
you as i said may refuse
which would be sad
for you

first of all when a person lectures you they give you an opplrtunity to rise above that petty and weak part of yourself that gets offended at everytbing that doesnt stroke it and validate it without challenge

you have an opportunity everh time you are lectured to make the self important little tyrant that lives within you squirm with discomfort

if you subject it to this discomfort regularly it will one day become so uncomfortable that it will leave

and you will be a profoundly more powerful and exceptional person for having vanquished it
for it truly is a tyrant
and you are the most helpless and most mistreated of all of its slaves

so you should read this lecture evrery single day to remind yourself of your path to freedom

also
when a person lectures you
they are pointing out to you something that they believe they see in you

it may be that they are completely mistaken
like how you misundrstood my initial post
i mean yojr interlretation of what i said was entirely you
you read my words and you saw your own self reflection

you were nowhere near the actual meaning of what i said
i mean you were on another planet

but i have to thank you for the gift of your lecture

whether the lecture rings true or not
something that it affords you is an opportunity to see how your presentation is interpreted by at least one other person

im sure my presentation here is being interpreted in all kinds of ways not all of which are friendly
to be honest i find that more amusing than insulting

but its useful to get that feedback from time to time

so its a gift
thank you for the gift

lastly
if by chance the lecture hits on something that really does apply to you
for instance this lecture
then after that little tyrant within you is molified you will be able to see "this really is useful for me. even though i dont like it - in fact partly BECAUSE i dont like it- it has value that can improve my life in important and tangible ways.

when i say that little tyrant has made you a slave i say this because i have seen my own slavery to the same tyrant

and just as i belive in the ultimate goodness of my better self
so to do i belive in the goodness of yours

I belive in your power
and i belive in your vision

i would be remiss if i did not thank you also for the gifts you have given me

i think my gift to you could be more useful to you in the long run than your gift to me
but i admit that your gift to me is genuinely wonderful
i want to express for the purposes of clarity that if i saw your gift to me as being no more than an opportunity to feel superior then i would only be displaying my own slavery to my own little tyrant and would innthis be missing the value of your gift to me

i can see that i was imleccable with you
and that even now i am being impeccable with you
i have not been and am not now the least offended by you
nor do i mistake this moment as evidence of any kind pf superiority to you at the level of our intrinsic human worth
this is the first time that i have seen my own impeccability bear out in a human interaction

Like
i did right with you all the way
and it came back to me
even now i am doing right to you by recognising and appreciating this gift you have.give. to me
and expressing my sincere grattitude

so actually i dont know whos gift is more useful
but i do know that to value a gift only in proprtion to its useful ness is a very selfish thing to do

so i thank you for your gift to me
and i hope
with affection
that you make use of mine to you

I want a citation of me saying anything that you allege me to have said. In particular, please, show me the accusations you claim I made against you and explain to me how after your most recent post they would be less than perfectly accurate, if I actually had made them.

Also, explain to me how barely a week's worth of interaction could have you figure me all out as if I was a one-dimensional transparent simpleton, you presumptuous snob. *cough*
Let alone that this 'conclusion' of yours is easily and unambiguously falsified by even as little as reading this very thread or any small number of other recent ones.

Oh, and I have a personal request, too: Next time you hit the quote button, make sure you read the post you quote first. It would also be nice if your response was to something within that post as well, albeit that is not a requirement; it would be much appreciated if you at least read it though. Thanks!

The tyrant cracks the whip

"DEFEND ME!" !crack!

what you are experiencing is not righteous indignation

it is self righteous importance
its ok
we all do it im no better
but experience this feeling to the fullest and take note of it
everything im saying to you is eliciting an involuntary response within you
like being tickled
you cant help but be offended
but there is no need for it

Gisteron wrote: I am not an arbiter of what is a courageous or cowardly person. I used the word coward as a shortcut. The wrapper didn't say what courage or lack thereof is either. It just advocated to advice it to others eventhough you may lack it yourself, whatever that means in any one particular situation.

And it is not that I do not see any value in this kind of message. Indeed, chances are I see no less of it than anybody else. That is the reason I don't bother pointing it out, because you all can see it anyway and it would make for a rather boring discussion if all of us only had to say one and the same thing.

What I pointed to is that the wrapper didn't make any reservations. Of course I will advice against the wrong choices I made and of course I will support people and their ideas, but not across the board and not because I wish or expect blanket support to return back to me one day either. I only have my own perspective to work from and chances are I am going to do decide poorly from it at most turning points. Thankfully I happen to have people around with their own perspectives who see it as their moral duty to help me choose free from my biases and limits. In the same way I myself feel obligated to contribute my point of view in helping others. Blanket support is not helpful. If I wanted my own voice played back to me I would have recorded it

On a final note, I have been as much of a human in my lifetime as has anyone. As much as you, I, too, have had moments of courage and of cowardice. I have been dishonest more times than I could count and honest enough times as to regret some of them.
I do not speak proudly of the mistakes I made either. I recognize some of them as such, have corrected some, will have to do some again eventually and will surely do some more soon enough. Just because we all do them doesn't make them a good thing. We ought to accept our flaws as in acknowledge their presence, but also perpetually try and overcome them rather than welcome them and embrace them as the part of us that they inevitably are.

pt 2
i wish to hold this post particularly as example 2 whilst Gisterons first post in this thread i present as example 1
And i hold his silence as example 3


This is a post of exceptional quality
most especially in juxtaposition to the first

in thiz post i see the confidence of a person who knows they have something valuable to offer the world
and more importantly someone who knows they have the right to judge for themselves
not simply in the IM BETTER THAN ANYTHING U HAVE TO SAY manner of a person whos never lost

but in a healthy "i know my heart is where it ought to be. or at least i know im trying sincerely to get it there" manner of someone who knows they more to learn but also honors the learning theyve done

i see the honest to review ones past without making oneself into either the great hero or the persecuted victim
but only a man
who tries
and sometimess wins and sometimes fails
but who can face it both
and not be carried away by either

and i see him stating respect for the people who have helped him along his path

and i want to point out his silence
rather than stay fixated on how much he doesnt like me and spend god knows any amount of energy and time is a pointkess flame war
he just walked away
some things a person ought not walk away from
a pointless and stupid internet argument is not one of them

can anyone argue that warrior attributes include
confidence
humility
honesty
judgement
the pursuit of growth and commitment to character
?
is there any doubt when reviewing his original post
and then this post which ive quoted
and then his sustained silence
that he has exibited each of these qualities?

im not apologising at all
and its completely irrelavent if anyone likes me or my forum persona
we all serve the beam

(or the FORCE since its a jedi forum)

I thought i was teaching you a lesson but you certainly taught me