Fear Leads to Anger...

Connor,

You are correct, it does not happen in ALL situations. All I was posting on was to the post of how it was a load of rubbish and I was giving Historical data to prove my point. And I did. In each of the examples I gave the Phrase yoda said "Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to hate, Hate leads to suffering" in each of my historical examples, that is what happened. Does that phrase happen every day on the hour? No. Does it happen often? I could not honestly say, I guess it depends on the situation, the person, how much hate or bigotry they got in themselves, honestly too many "what if's" and varibles to say honestly " yes it does happen often" because that would not be honest. It would be more honest to say "I honestly do not know" So you are right Connor, I cannot prove it always happens. But then again, as I stated above "All I was posting on was to the post of how it was a load of rubbish and I was giving Historical data to prove my point. And I did. In each of the examples I gave the Phrase yoda said "Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to hate, Hate leads to suffering" in each of my historical examples, that is what happened."

Precisely Oneiros, it's fiction, simply put. The fictional Jedi within the movies were never intended to start a religious or philosophical movement. The script from the prequels seemed rushed, it certainly wasn't intended for anything more than entertainment of children in most cases. Let's not over think it, or attempt to infuse meaning in the words of fictional characters...

Yoda's assertion implies that it happens all the time, though.

Silver, the point I'm saying is that if one were to rearrange that into a different order then there would probably be historical examples for any configuration (especially since anger and hate are practically synonymous). As steam was saying it is "sage wisdom", it's like in Episode 3 when Anakin comes to Yoda with a quite serious problem and Yoda just sends Anakin on his way again after spouting lots of nice lines about Jedi Doctrine and such. I know Alethea has had a go at Yoda for doing that lol, it's recklessly irresponsible of him.

When I say "it's rubbish" what I mean by that isn't that it might not be true, but that it is certainly not "wise". Wisdom isn't owning a pocketbook of sayings that you pull out and use whenever the appropriate circumstances arise.

Akkarin wrote: Not only would I argue that Yoda is using a Slippery Slope argument, but why does that chain of events even have to be in that order?

I presume we can move beyond the fact its a movie, and say that as Art, it's purpose is to inspire thought (and a side-bonus is to entertain)...

If one should decide that as fiction, it has nothing more to offer, then I'd say "well it's just a movie, get over it..." :lol:

I can see your concern regarding the potential for slippery slope, but I think in terms of logic one would have to disprove the original statement.

As fear ignites the Human "fight or flight" response, then one could deduce that fear leads to anger. As anger is an ally of Hatred, then one could see that linkage. As Hate takes you away from letting go, so it leads to suffering (in a Buddhist sense). So it could be said that a cascade effect occurs from Fear through anger to hatred to suffering, which nullify's the concern about slippery slope fallacy (or does it?)....

Akkarin wrote: Can't Fear lead to Hatred? And Suffering lead to Anger? And Fear lead to Suffering? And Hatred lead to Anger? etc

Yes, but I think at that point it's all about the mantra, as Steamboat pointed out. You can say whatever you want, but the important thing is to drive the message...

Beyond that, it still is a matter of aesthetics...

Arkayik wrote: I presume we can move beyond the fact its a movie, and say that as Art, it's purpose is to inspire thought (and a side-bonus is to entertain)...

If one should decide that as fiction, it has nothing more to offer, then I'd say "well it's just a movie, get over it..." :lol:

I can see your concern regarding the potential for slippery slope, but I think in terms of logic one would have to disprove the original statement.

As fear ignites the Human "fight or flight" response, then one could deduce that fear leads to anger. As anger is an ally of Hatred, then one could see that linkage. As Hate takes you away from letting go, so it leads to suffering (in a Buddhist sense). So it could be said that a cascade effect occurs from Fear through anger to hatred to suffering, which nullify's the concern about slippery slope fallacy (or does it?)....

If someone's listing a sequence of mental states, couldn't anger lead to composure, and hatred lead to forgiveness?

Like I said in the OP it's a "pet annoyance" I was reminded of.

Connor L. wrote: Yoda's assertion implies that it happens all the time, though.

That is the real crux of the point I guess, which I disagree with, but assuming Yoda was implying it always happened all I can get was he was talking about a systematic approach to the processing emotion.

I guess interestingly in some systems we can have something called a 'cascade', where a process over-speeds. It makes a good analogy to 'dark' in the fictional context of the Force in the movies... as a sucking, vacuous, black hole like momentum - like the dark side of emotions is when fear transforms to anger, which then changes into anger then hatred etc. The lesson being to identify the cascade and arrest it... which is why I don't think the implication is that it happens all the time.

Akkarin wrote:
If someone's listing a sequence of mental states, couldn't anger lead to composure, and hatred lead to forgiveness?

But why would you initiate a teaching mantra if the actual sequence of states already leads to a desired outcome?

I don't so much need a map if I already know the terrain...

Would it have helped if Yoda added a disclaimer? :lol:

Fear can sometimes lead to anger. Anger can sometimes lead to hate.... etc

Yoda Disclaimer:

"Hello! I am Yoda and I speak in reverse order because it makes me wiser. Sometimes I say things that sound very wise, but you should be an enlightened person already to get them right anyway. Because if you are not, they will stay cool motto phrases forever. And isn't it cool that I can compile stylish mottoes? So... You know, you shouldn't really listen to me that much. I just like to speak wise things. Even when there's no need to. Ok, so after this disclaimer, let me teach how to be a Jedi"