Apologies

Connor L. wrote: Ack. Sorry, bad word choice on my part, then.

What I mean to say is, you would have a "reason" for choosing to go against yourself and for the pack. It wouldn't just happen without your connection to somebody. Let's take rugadd's example. He was not forced to pay for his roommate. But, the coercion is internal. He's convinced himself that love is more important than his money (neither are objectively more important), so he made the self-sacrificing choice.

But, if he didn't love the person, he wouldn't choose to do it. Love is the coercion there.

and there in is the contradiction. The love and connection is instinct too. The "pack" thing is about connection and instinctive understanding by those strong enough to make the sacrifices that the pack is worth protecting. Love is not coercion. Love is instinct.

"I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console;
To be understood as to understand;
To be loved as to love;
For it is in giving that we receive"

That speaks of sacrifice. Its not simply a matter of choice, but a matter of who we are when we strip back the selfishness that we learn.

Oneiros wrote: So, in the context of this conversation, not being rude to someone will probably benefit you either because they won't be rude to you, or if they are, you at least have the moral high ground and others are more likely to side with you in a disagreement or something.
Just an observation.

Exactly. On this website, my life isn't dependent on the relationships I form here. I don't need anything from anybody here. Do I enjoy conversation? Yes! Do I enjoy the things I learn and the friends I've made? Yes! So, you can be rude to me all you want. I'll probably just block you out. If I'm rude to you, if I make that move even if I'm not thinking about it, feel free to block me. I'm interested in things that move forward here. I don't want petty debates about stuff that doesn't matter. So, when I decided somebody was just insane and couldn't be reasoned with without getting petty, then I just don't talk to them unless something interesting happens.

In my life in the music school, I am very nice to the people that I have connections with. My professors, my parents, my friends... If I am playful with them, that's one thing. But, I try my best not to be rude because that will help me later.

Connor L. wrote:

Oneiros wrote: So, in the context of this conversation, not being rude to someone will probably benefit you either because they won't be rude to you, or if they are, you at least have the moral high ground and others are more likely to side with you in a disagreement or something.
Just an observation.

Exactly. On this website, my life isn't dependent on the relationships I form here. I don't need anything from anybody here. Do I enjoy conversation? Yes! Do I enjoy the things I learn and the friends I've made? Yes! So, you can be rude to me all you want. I'll probably just block you out. If I'm rude to you, if I make that move even if I'm not thinking about it, feel free to block me. I'm interested in things that move forward here. I don't want petty debates about stuff that doesn't matter. So, when I decided somebody was just insane and couldn't be reasoned with without getting petty, then I just don't talk to them unless something interesting happens.

In my life in the music school, I am very nice to the people that I have connections with. My professors, my parents, my friends... If I am playful with them, that's one thing. But, I try my best not to be rude because that will help me later.

So youre only polite when youre potentially going to get something out of it later? (not an accusation btw. Im trying to unravel my understanding of your perception of rudeness)

Connor L. wrote: So, you can be rude to me all you want. I'll probably just block you out. If I'm rude to you, if I make that move even if I'm not thinking about it, feel free to block me. I'm interested in things that move forward here. I don't want petty debates about stuff that doesn't matter. So, when I decided somebody was just insane and couldn't be reasoned with without getting petty, then I just don't talk to them unless something interesting happens.

See I don't consider not talking to someone because you don't feel the conversation will go anywhere is rude. That's more along the lines of avoiding conflict. I won't speak for everyone, but it seemed that by 'rude' you meant being blatantly disrespectful because F them that's why.

Yes. If I'm overly nice to you, it's because I want something from you. I'm man enough to admit that. With most women, it's probably sex, right? I've found that I am nice to women a lot. hahaha. I use my friends for emotional support and to get them to do things for me. I also enjoy the knowledge they bring me. And, yes, I reciprocate. When people give me things, I give back. That's only fair.

(Oh, also, I am also cordial with people when they're funny. I like humor).

I think most people are polite because it gives them a reaction, same with being rude it gives you a reaction from others.
I don't see it as a reflection of who the person is.

I should also mention: I'm not MEAN to people whom I don't want anything from. I'm just indifferent to them and their feelings. Oftentimes that comes off as rude.

Connor L. wrote: I'm just indifferent to them and their feelings.

Why?

Love is the coercion there

not in the very least in my experience but if it did....

:woohoo: bring on the whips and chains :laugh:

I put myself in harm's way on a daily basis as part of my work. I chose the job. And I put myself in harm's way, sometimes, for people I do not like or admire. I prevent violence where I can and snuff out violence I was unable to prevent.

I am not certain to what degree that is instinctual, though it feels natural enough. But mist anything you repeat can feel natural given enough time. Nor am I compelled as such. I chose this work in the first place, after all.

I can only say that I put myself in harm's way for the people I serve out of a sense of the rightness of the action, out of a sense of wrongness for other actions or inaction. I can list lots of rational explanations but none satisfy beyond a sense of what the situation requires.