Apologies

I typed up a long post about how I felt about the rules of "playing nice" on this website. As many of you know, I'm high energy, hot languaged, and rude some of the time. I don't see much reason to change that, as I don't think it is a problem. However, after thinking about it, I decided to go check the rules of the website.

"TotJO is a place for spiritual enlightenment, self discovery and discussion of many varied and wide ranging topics. Here at TotJO we debate arguments not personalities and ideas instead of people.

Everyone makes mistake and it is not simply a case of one breach of the rules and your account is suspended.The people for whom this rule applies are those who are persistent and do so in a flagrant manner, even after unofficial and official warnings about it.

It demonstrates negative traits in an individual namely disrespect for fellow users and lack of control of oneself. 'Heat of the moment' is not a viable excuse, for as Jedi one must possess more control.

So, please think about what you have typed before sending. Show your respect and consideration for your fellow Temple members by simply maintaining the self-restraint to not swear. As it is much easier to control this behaviour when typing than it is in verbal conversation, there really is no acceptable excuse.

Post what you think is acceptable for an 8 year old to read (be it your own child or another) as this is in fact a family, and public, forum after all. If in doubt, leave it out.

Please note also that swearing is not the only way to offend. One can be just as demeaning and derogatory without resorting to swear words. These cases are as equally inappropriate and are covered under the same regulation on the forum."

*headsmack* So, sorry. I still disagree that playing nice is necessary. In fact, I'd rather people be more like [names removed]. At least they're honest with their human nature. Heck, I've even seen Alex lose it a couple of times over text, and I've really grown to respect him because of that.

But, the website's rules are clear. TOTJO is not the place for that kind of behavior. Maybe someday I'll convince you guys to change the rule.

You won't hear anymore weird emotional outbursts from me.

-Con

“Rudeness is the weak person's imitation of strength.”

― Eric Hoffer

Connor L. wrote: I still disagree that playing nice is necessary. In fact, I'd rather people be more like [names removed]. At least they're honest with their human nature.

I can definitely understand that, Connor. For some people, however, it is very much in our nature to be kind and play nice. It doesn't feel natural for me to engage with other people rudely, debate or compete with the sole intention of winning or besting someone else, or to approach any type of communication dishonestly (even in a mischievous or playfully malicious manner).

I'm always myself (100%) when online, but oftentimes I think people misinterpret my genuine nature as superficial or as a mask hiding a need for personal gain or control of some sort. If those people truly knew me (especially, I imagine, if we met in person), there's no way my actions or intentions would be misunderstood.

And to be as clear as possible, having a kind nature doesn't make me feel like I'm better or more balanced than anyone else. I am human and have breaking points as well. I don't think of myself as weak in those broken moments, nor do I tend to equate them with human nature.

I know you understand what I've written on some level, but I wanted to share my thoughts on this to emphasize how different certain individuals are from others when it comes to the concept of human nature. You may be rude, energetic, and perhaps a bit mouthy and abrupt... that's your nature. Though that might not be an accurate evaluation of the nature of others in the community.

TotJO's rules and regulations aside, I appreciate it when people are genuine, honest, and true to their natures, but if I find someone frequently disagreeable (here or elsewhere) I make a decision not to nurture those relationships. Personally, I've never thought of you as a petty troublemaker or one who can't play nice when necessary... more like a well-intentioned 'Loki' of the Jedi community.

Connor L. wrote: At least they're honest with their human nature.

I agree. When we can acknowledge the ever present possibility of losing ourselves to emotion, no matter how briefly, it allows for a deeper understanding of the human experience. Genuine and honest expression of one's nature is often an opportunity to shine a light on the very parts of our nature we have come to this temple to address. As a Jedi, I would hope that others here could understand that I may be given to occasional emotional outbursts and not simply dismiss me as being 'rude'. Instead, I would hope that it could be an opportunity for me to reflect on my behavior and be even more motivated to be better the next time around. The day we can be honest with ourselves about our own natures is the day such rules would no longer be needed. Emotion, yet peace.

For sure, Arcade! Humans are not naturally rude or kind. But, in fact, humans are naturally selfish. We are all about self preservation and the preservation of our loved ones.

Some of us find it more natural to explore that through aggressiveness and assertiveness. Others through kindness.

I like to think of myself with a young Mace Windu personality. Very much engrained in my own darkness, but using that for the bad assery of goodness. Or as you say, a Loki of sorts.

John, I don't agree... nice quotation, though!

Thanks, Senan. I'm glad you're seeing where I'm coming from.

I have encountered a rather peculiar phenomenon, mostly unrelated to this, but indeed related in one part. Particularly with rules there is a negative correlation of the extent to which somebody refers back to them and the extent to which that same body has read, much less understood them. Now, by this token, consider this quote:

Here at TotJO we debate arguments not personalities and ideas instead of people.

Just how much unnecessary and counterproductive conflict (as opposed to the positively beneficial, that is) could be avoided, if only everyone understood this simple statement of fact? It specifically says, right there in our rules, that unless someone is directly and unambiguously attacked and insulted, every serious statement made here is only and exclusively about arguments and ideas, not people and not personalities.

Now, it has been a while since I read the rules and I don't invest too much in keeping up with their changes though I probably should. I wouldn't refer back to them, usually, because they aren't specifically counter-intuitive to an extent where mere human decency was rendered insufficient to identify inappropriate behaviour (and I will rather leave that judgement to the fair reader before passing it myself). In fact, the converse case could be made to some extent instead. I am also not above violating them myself, though I try avoiding it and am willing to apologize if accidentally I have.

Now, all this considered, how come that those of us who are accused of setting off arbitrary rudeness-meters, by those who seem to not quite have grasped this part of the same paragraph they claim was violated, unknowingly keep repeating what the rules actually say when the opportunity comes up? And is nobody else mildly amused by this beautiful irony?

I’m a little unclear as to what you are referring to in your last paragraph, and if you’d like you are more than welcome to contact me via PM if you think it would be better. But, if I understand you correctly, I would say that the reason is because a great deal of it is up to personal interpretation. Which is why I “try” to refer to them as the “guidelines” and not rules. Try… I do sometimes mess up.

Br. John wrote: “Rudeness is the weak person's imitation of strength.”

― Eric Hoffer

I agree unequivocally. Aside from a playful rudeness that is part of humor, actual rudeness is something to be outgrown.

Rudeness is a sign of many things. A lack of awareness, a lack of regard for the people around you, a lack of respect for self and environment, and a lack of control. Everyone succumbs to rudeness. I am by no means immune to it. And of course, we want to lash out and offend people and play at strength. I want all those things from time to time.

But I want other things more. I want the people in my presence to feel safe and respected. I want my current interactions to make relationships stronger. Civility is a sign of respect. Respect is key. It need not be severe, and certainly not authoritarian, but it is key.

There is nothing wrong with being playful, but that has to end somewhere. Being polite is not, for me, to be unnatural. It is a deliberate process of prioritizing my needs and desires. As I said, I am not immune to it. But civility is central to my path. Even in conflict, there should be respect.

Connor L. wrote: For sure, Arcade! Humans are not naturally rude or kind. But, in fact, humans are naturally selfish. We are all about self preservation and the preservation of our loved ones.

I don't mean to be contrarian. Though this statement is in conflict with how certain people's minds work. In Jung's personality theory, there are two distinct types of thinkers... essentially, those who consider themselves before others and those who consider others before themselves. Many of us fit into the latter category.

Ultimately, yes, it does always come down to self preservation, but I disagree with the comment that humans are naturally selfish. I'm not suggesting that being selfish is wrong... simply that it's not a natural state for some people.

Connor L. wrote: I like to think of myself with a young Mace Windu personality. Very much engrained in my own darkness, but using that for the bad assery of goodness. Or as you say, a Loki of sorts.

I have a similar understanding in my own belief system related to the acknowledgment of darkness and its ability to enhance the light, but I think how we approach that idea (as well as how we go about actualizing it) might be different.

Br. John wrote: “Rudeness is the weak person's imitation of strength.”

― Eric Hoffer

I find quotes like these rude, and dismissive.

I have met plenty of rude people and it was not a sign of weakness.

The weak willed often say things like the above to justify there own inability to be rude when necessary.

Today, people whine about bullying, or kill themselves, rather than stand up and fight for themselves.

The above quote may imply wisdom to some, but to me, it shows a lack of character,at best.