Article: This is why Poor People's Bad Decisions Make Perfect Sense

Akkarin wrote: In my opinion it is unfair to hold non-Jedi to the standards we hold ourselves up to.

In my opinion its unfair to assume that non Jedi don't have the capability to better themselves in the same way we aspire to. That for me is elitist.

And its one of the bug bears for me with articles like this. Its tough as hell, I get that. Ive been there. But...

Brenna wrote:

Akkarin wrote: In my opinion it is unfair to hold non-Jedi to the standards we hold ourselves up to.

In my opinion its unfair to assume that non Jedi don't have the capability to better themselves in the same way we aspire to. That for me is elitist.

It isn't about not having the same capabilities. It is about the fact that it is quite possible we are in entirely different situations, with entirely different pasts and lives.

"Presentism" is judging the people of the past by the standards we hold ourselves now. I assume we all abhor slavery, but the people several hundred years ago (though slavery also exists today) lived entirely different lives to us. That doesn't mean they were incapable of not endorsing slavery, the practice was eventually banned, but there are still stark differences between us.

Understand that I'm not saying the advice isn't good advice, but it is very easy to simply dismiss someone because you are in a different situation.

"If you're poor why don't you just get a job?" Unless the person is knowingly apathetic that is probably a very inconsiderate and offensive question to ask.

I have face this problem several times, after a few divorces... start from zero. i mean no house no money no nothing... and the times i sucseeded are the times i died to my self and faced the truth and began at the beginning. the bottom. to many individuals are ashamed or have to much pride to start there . C S Lewis said "the problem of pain is the problem of pain." I've sat down and bit my tonge and washed dishes... ive bussed tables, a grown man... but i felt blessed to work and i let it show. i did what i had to and i was blessed. i acted blessed and i was blessed. i stayed faithfull and found favor. to often times there is no faithfulness in hard times because its easy to quit and just loath on yourself. this keeps you down. but to go to get up to fall forward... thats where the change happens , when you take your own life into your hands and make somthing out of nothing. You become the hero of your own story, you find the strength and preserver, you win.

Akkarin wrote:

Brenna wrote:

Akkarin wrote: In my opinion it is unfair to hold non-Jedi to the standards we hold ourselves up to.

In my opinion its unfair to assume that non Jedi don't have the capability to better themselves in the same way we aspire to. That for me is elitist.

It isn't about not having the same capabilities. It is about the fact that it is quite possible we are in entirely different situations, with entirely different pasts and lives.

"Presentism" is judging the people of the past by the standards we hold ourselves now. I assume we all abhor slavery, but the people several hundred years ago (though slavery also exists today) lived entirely different lives to us. That doesn't mean they were incapable of not endorsing slavery, the practice was eventually banned, but there are still stark differences between us.

Understand that I'm not saying the advice isn't good advice, but it is very easy to simply dismiss someone because you are in a different situation.

"If you're poor why don't you just get a job?" Unless the person is knowingly apathetic that is probably a very inconsiderate and offensive question to ask.

I think you have read into what Ive said something that I have not said. I am not judging anyone, nor am I giving advice. I am saying that it is possible, as per the Viktor Frankl quote, to chose how we respond to our circumstances regardless of what they are. For example, in the article, the author talks about "poor peoples coping mechanism" like drugs or alcohol or smoking as though its a given. "this is what poor people do". There is no requirement to do any of those just because you are poor, and regardless of the circumstances, that is something that a person might decided to do in order to cope. The key factor here is CHOICE.

Making better choices may not get a person out of poverty, BUT you still have the option of making different choices.

Brenna some times it is not a choice that the individual makes, that part of the equasion is un controllable, what is controllable is our part of the equasion how we react to it what we do how long we saty and if we rise or fall from it. JEDI or not our lifes are...our own. we, I , make my desisions for my life as you make them for yours. the choices we...make ...desice the "fate" of our lives. people deside to fall or rise during these situations. but trouble will come accidents will happen and bad things will occur, it is up to the person to react how ever they see fit...
no matter how hard the wind blows, mountains can not bow. others are just shaff in the wind... so yes i agree with you

carlos.martinez3 wrote: Brenna some times it is not a choice that the individual makes, that part of the equasion is un controllable, what is controllable is our part of the equasion how we react to it

This is exactly what Im saying

Akkarin wrote: In my opinion it is unfair to hold non-Jedi to the standards we hold ourselves up to.

AMEN! For some, trying to live the lives we aspire to isn't appealing either, so they don't associate with it. But to ask someone to live by the standards put in place by the group of people they claim to be a part of isn't really asking too much. We all have our reputations to uphold. There is absolutely nothing wrong with determining that this isn't your way of life. And as Jedi, I feel we should be there for them as friends regardless of the path they take (well...again...I'll cite that I'll admonish someone that tries to use anything they do to commit atrocities- but I also feel that it is one way of being a friend, learning when to let go of someone because it is the only thing that I can do that will "save" them).

Alethea Thompson wrote:

Akkarin wrote: In my opinion it is unfair to hold non-Jedi to the standards we hold ourselves up to.

AMEN! For some, trying to live the lives we aspire to isn't appealing either, so they don't associate with it. But to ask someone to live by the standards put in place by the group of people they claim to be a part of isn't really asking too much. We all have our reputations to uphold. There is absolutely nothing wrong with determining that this isn't your way of life. And as Jedi, I feel we should be there for them as friends regardless of the path they take (well...again...I'll cite that I'll admonish someone that tries to use anything they do to commit atrocities- but I also feel that it is one way of being a friend, learning when to let go of someone because it is the only thing that I can do that will "save" them).

Im not quite sure how we've gotten here because no one has said that we should expect people to adhere to our standards. I personally believe that EVERYONE is capable of more, but that doesn't mean I'm about to expect them to take on the Jedi path.

My only point is that I disagree with aspects of the article (and the concept in general) that being in certain circumstances means that your reactions or methods of coping are dictated to you, or are your only option.

My support of Akkarin's article was more of a "FINALLY SOMEONE GETS WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO SAY!" and can totally say it better than me, lol.

Now, to expand on my own views on the topic. I was there, had college to attend and a minimum wage job. I was at my wits end just before ObamaCare kicked in, and then when it did...OMG, I sometimes cried myself to sleep waiting on a "maybe" from the Coast Guard.

My husband left the Army and got a slightly more than minimum wage paying job- and we were both in a state that doesn't have income tax. So we were getting the majority of our checks.

While I was in basic...the bank began the foreclosure process on our house. A house, mind you, that cost less a month than any apartment in the area because it's a military town (more specifically, an ARMY town- ask Wes, the Army has this reputation for building installations next to cities that can only be described as "holes"). Almost no one around me felt they could get anything better. Even when they went to slightly better paying jobs (after you factor in gas), they felt like they were scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

In all honesty, it was this community and the possibility that I could get back into the service that kept my spirits up.