Words Mean Things II... The Revenge...

Targeran Arynal wrote:

Wescli Wardest wrote: I guess my ‘hang up’ is that we are supposedly all adults here and relatively intelligent and yet we have to have this discussion at all… other than that I see no issue.

Ouch

Once again Targeran, you read my mind.

Your powers are growing stronger. lol

Contentious disputation is fun. :woohoo:

Jestor wrote: Why does "words meaning things" present such an issue?

Anyone?

I chose the word 'faith' because, as I said, I said the two of you had it, and was informed I was incorrect...

This is a big stumbling block, as is pointed out about the law, and about many aspects of life...

Assumptions on what was meant, "I didnt realize you meant THAT'...

And people get ticky...

So, what is the hang up?

In order to be perfectly understood I need to use concrete words. When writing reports, I am required to use concrete words or they get kicked back. Why? Because abstract words mean different things to different people from different places at different times. Dictionary or not. That's putting the human in the equation. And we mess everything up :woohoo:

Even words that some people might consider concrete are left to interpretation depending on the listener. Such as the word "Coke". Where I come from, coke is a brand. If I want coke, I ask for coke. It's all soda, but only coke is coke. But for my husband, it's ALL coke. You ask him for a coke and he'll say "What kind?" :blink:

Another example that drives me up the wall is the word "Literally". A few years ago I'd say that we could all agree on what that word means. Now dictionaries have started adapting what I consider a HORRIBLE misuse of the word. But they're incorporating it now because it's so wide-spread. People have been using it as a form of emphasis even when this thing never really happened. "He LITERALLY shoved his whole hand up his nose!" No, no, I'm pretty sure he didn't :silly:

Another example I like to use is color. I like to joke that all guys are color blind. Not true in a clinical sense but most guys either can't see or don't care to tell the difference between lavender and magenta. They're either "Both purple" or "one is purple, one is red" (and in one case one is purple and the other yellow...) but to me there is a VAST difference between the two to the point I can't even describe them as 'purple' (although TECHNICLY they both fall under that color)

BUT being the Temple that we are, we can't stick with concrete words for most of our conversations. The best I try to do is understand what that word means to that individual. Even if it deviates from the dictionary. Language is imperfect. Sometimes we adapt words to use where we need them because there isn't another one to use. Yeah, words mean things. But it's us who give them meaning to start with. Otherwise they're just funny squiggles on the screen or oddly shaped sounds. I don't think we should toss out the dictionary, but try to be more understanding of variations and personal meanings. Both in writing and in reading.

Words mean things, but thanks to cultural,regional, and generational differences the same word can have a million different meanings...ever try to study japanese...they have 3 alphabets, like 6 different words for the same thing all determined by context, whole expressions that can't be explained outside of their language and no comprehension of many foreign expressions...yet they still manage to communicate effectively with other cultures, because they work at it

Proper communication is work....and frustratingly difficult work at that...

And for the record even I have been contacted in the past about things I've said and the manner in which I've said them....I was being myself, and stood by my words,I'm still here and still myself, and still stand by what I say....all because I am understood...be free to speak your mind(within the rules, of course) that is the only way to become understood...

Kamizu wrote:
BUT being the Temple that we are, we can't stick with concrete words for most of our conversations. The best I try to do is understand what that word means to that individual. Even if it deviates from the dictionary. Language is imperfect. Sometimes we adapt words to use where we need them because there isn't another one to use. Yeah, words mean things. But it's us who give them meaning to start with. Otherwise they're just funny squiggles on the screen or oddly shaped sounds. I don't think we should toss out the dictionary, but try to be more understanding of variations and personal meanings. Both in writing and in reading.

I agree that words are most powerful when they are taken in a more metaphorical 'meaning' kind of way rather than a literal 'fact' kind of way. It just plays to their nature. Many ancient wisdom teaching are incredibly potent when it comes to this mode of expression. It's why they are so revered even today. It is much more meaningful when you say something the instantly forms an image or feeling or memory of experience in someone's mind rather than just calling more words into mind. It's like when we have those epiphany, 'A Ha' moments, which we here one of our fellow Jedi come up with here for us pretty regularly.

At the same time I feel like a lot of the people I've met here so far are trying to share a common experience, namely the Force but it's so far beyond words and we are all quite aware of that, but we are all so Force-sensitive that it either enthuses us a great deal to spend time talking and thinking about it or it presents an insatiable desire to meet the challenge of experiencing it totally. So here, too, words can be very helpful when they are defined amongst a group who is willing to try to talk about things far beyond words but that they feel must still be talked about.

I do see it as a very constructive process myself to work both with metaphor and with fact, and knowing the proper timing and place to use each. If we're only going to use one or the other in a particular thread then the rules should be stated from the beginning, like Jestor did with this one.

Targeran Arynal wrote: At the same time I feel like a lot of the people I've met here so far are trying to share a common experience, namely the Force but it's so far beyond words and we are all quite aware of that, but we are all so Force-sensitive that it either enthuses us a great deal to spend time talking and thinking about it or it presents an insatiable desire to meet the challenge of experiencing it totally. So here, too, words can be very helpful when they are defined amongst a group who is willing to try to talk about things far beyond words but that they feel must still be talked about.

But even this common experience isn't experienced the same way. The way I work with and view the Force is vastly different than others here. But that doesn't make the way others experience it any less of an experience. But it sure provides for a LOT of conversation and debate but all those different experiences cause us to have different definitions for those abstract words and concepts even IF we could decide on a common definition....Shoot, we can't even make up our collective mind about what the Force itself is much less anything else haha. It's that human thing again And why metaphors are so useful in the proper places

@ Kamizu...


hahahahhaha :woohoo:

Wescli Wardest wrote: @ Kamizu...

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hahahahhaha :woohoo:

Now, THAT brings back memories ...

Wescli Wardest wrote: @ Kamizu...

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hahahahhaha :woohoo:

Ahahahahaha! love it!

Kamizu wrote: And why metaphors are so useful in the proper places

You mean, like, Vegas? :evil: