Unquestioned belief

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20 Aug 2014 01:16 #156622 by Brenna
Unquestioned belief was created by Brenna
"I explained the idea of religions as memeplexes: they package up a set of doctrines, tell believers to learn them, to pass them on, to have faith and not doubt, and they ensure obedience with fearsome threats and ridiculous promises."

https://richarddawkins.net/2014/08/a-hundred-walked-out-of-my-lecture/

Warning: Spoiler!



Walking, stumbling on these shadowfeet

Part of the seduction of most religions is the idea that if you just say the right things and believe really hard, your salvation will be at hand.

With Jediism. No one is coming to save you. You have to get off your ass and do it yourself - Me
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20 Aug 2014 01:33 - 20 Aug 2014 01:38 #156625 by
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This made me think of God Wants You Dead, the optional reading in the 'World Religions' section of the Initiate Programme. It talks about "collective idea-organisms" in a similar manner to how the author of this article talks about memeplexes.

Very interesting and a little sad. Thanks for sharing.
Last edit: 20 Aug 2014 01:38 by .

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20 Aug 2014 02:40 #156636 by
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This wouldn't have happened at Arizona State University, haha.

In my world religions course I took there back in 2006 the professor was very obstinate to many of the big world religions. Where I was near the back of the lecture hall, I didn't see anyone leave and the class was nearly full every every time.

Consequently, that was the VERY class that got me really thinking about the racist past of my former religion and beginning a journey of introspection that ultimately culminated in finding my way here. I hold that professor in high regard for helping me think outside my normal paradigm (he's the only professor who's name I remember, too).

Like Arcade, I find it sad (and a little disturbing) that college level learners aren't able to open their minds to a different point of view; and yet, the religion I came from would've held up those students that walked out as an example of virtue and faith.

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20 Aug 2014 02:45 #156637 by Brenna
Replied by Brenna on topic Unquestioned belief

Learn_To_Know wrote: I find it sad (and a little disturbing) that college level learners aren't able to open their minds to a different point of view; and yet, the religion I came from would've held up those students that walked out as an example of virtue and faith.


This is exactly the reaction that I had. And the reason I posted it, is because it happens wherever you have people. Even here. It human nature to cling to something and be unwilling to keep exploring or question what we believe.



Walking, stumbling on these shadowfeet

Part of the seduction of most religions is the idea that if you just say the right things and believe really hard, your salvation will be at hand.

With Jediism. No one is coming to save you. You have to get off your ass and do it yourself - Me
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20 Aug 2014 09:43 #156652 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Unquestioned belief
Given how curious children generally are and how far they will push the why-question, I'm not sure this is part of human nature. If anything, I'd assert the opposite. Humans will try and find out more where they can and it is only thanks to years of indoctrination into believing that close-mindedness faith is a virtue and the curiosity you were born with is a sin, that they would be like that and later go on to be an example to their children and teach them the same stubbornness tools they were brought up with.

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
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20 Aug 2014 10:18 #156654 by Brenna
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Gisteron wrote: Given how curious children generally are and how far they will push the why-question, I'm not sure this is part of human nature. If anything, I'd assert the opposite. Humans will try and find out more where they can and it is only thanks to years of indoctrination into believing that close-mindedness faith is a virtue and the curiosity you were born with is a sin, that they would be like that and later go on to be an example to their children and teach them the same stubbornness tools they were brought up with.


Youre right of course. Our natural curiosity is human nature. Perhaps even our natural state of being. Something that we train out of children. We indoctrinate them, through religion, through social expectation, though whatever morality we feel is appropriate. We teach them to fear things that are not reasonable, and often not real. And when people are afraid, they cling to the known. And shut away anything that requires them to question that which they believe. That which has become their comfort zone. That too is a part of human nature.



Walking, stumbling on these shadowfeet

Part of the seduction of most religions is the idea that if you just say the right things and believe really hard, your salvation will be at hand.

With Jediism. No one is coming to save you. You have to get off your ass and do it yourself - Me
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20 Aug 2014 10:38 #156655 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic Unquestioned belief

Gisteron wrote: Given how curious children generally are and how far they will push the why-question, I'm not sure this is part of human nature. If anything, I'd assert the opposite. Humans will try and find out more where they can and it is only thanks to years of indoctrination into believing that close-mindedness faith is a virtue and the curiosity you were born with is a sin, that they would be like that and later go on to be an example to their children and teach them the same stubbornness tools they were brought up with.


I fixed your post..;)

Like everything else in life, "faith" is fine....

But, over zealousness of anything is not....

Notice the title of the thread, yet you referred to "faith"...

Interesting....

I'm feeling ornery.... lol...

New thread on "faith" coming up....

Lets talk...;)

On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
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Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter

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20 Aug 2014 10:49 #156656 by Brenna
Replied by Brenna on topic Unquestioned belief

Jestor wrote:
Notice the title of the thread, yet you referred to "faith"...

Interesting....


Funny you should say that.

When I posted it, despite the fact that she talks about religion, Im not interested in the religions aspect of it. Nor in the concept of faith.

Only in the idea of belief. And for me personally (as im working through this myself) unshakable belief in the face of evidence to the contrary. Shutting my ears to new information in a way.


Its also a reminder to read something new once in a while :whistle:



Walking, stumbling on these shadowfeet

Part of the seduction of most religions is the idea that if you just say the right things and believe really hard, your salvation will be at hand.

With Jediism. No one is coming to save you. You have to get off your ass and do it yourself - Me
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20 Aug 2014 10:55 #156659 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic Unquestioned belief
lol...

I do not want to derail the point of your thread, so I took it elsewhere...

I agree, more reading of new things....:)

On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
Former Memeber of the TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter

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20 Aug 2014 12:52 #156673 by Edan
Replied by Edan on topic Unquestioned belief
Before I started my degree I watched the lectures for the Yale university online psychology course. There was one lecture where the lecturer was talking about taboos. He was asking people to put their hand up on whether they disagreed or agreed with certain situations (like incest) only to point out the lack of logic. What people believe unreservedly, doesn't always make sense.

It won't let me have a blank signature ...
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