Something I wrote on facebook for my "christian" friends

Sometimes people will ask me "Do you believe in god?". My first reaction is one of irritation and repulsion, because In my mind I think they are asking me "Do you believe in the god of the christian bible?". To that question, I would have to say no. I have struggled a long time with the beliefs that many Christians have which stem from the bible, and this is because I have read the bible many times, and have been repulsed and disgusted with the things contained within it. The god portrayed in that book sanctions the genocide of entire ethnic groups, the murder of thousands, the subjugation of women, among other social ills which we as a race have come to understand are horrible things. The god of this book sends his "children" who sin without adequate repentance to an eternity of suffering and agony for a lifetime of misdeeds. Think about that. To the god of the bible, our lives must seem like a blip, an insignificant pinprick in the span of eternity. Yet in that god's blink of an eye, he expects us imperfect, flawed, and confused creations to live perfect lives and do everything he says we have to do, or we are punished for an eternity without reprieve. So my response to that question is usually "No". I do not believe the god of the bible exists. I do believe however that god exists. I believe there is a heaven. I believe that the true god is completely different than any depiction humanity has made of him/her/it, and that the afterlife will be more magnificent than anyone could possibly imagine or try to describe it.

So to my christian friends on Facebook, when it seems like I am attacking your religion with some of my posts, it's only because I am trying to get you to see that the god in your holy book doesn't match up with what you claim that god to be, an all loving, all caring being. When you post that suicides, heretics, adulterers, murders, drug addicts, and other sinners go to heaven, It just confuses the hell out of me because you seem to be talking about the god of the bible, and if you have read it you would know that all of those people end up in an eternal hell.

So, yeah....

As someone who's read the exact same book you have, I have come to none of those conclusions. I'm as annoyed with Christians as most vocal anti-theists, but I still hold their faith because it speaks to me. Christians are a huge problem with Christianity, but many of the incidents you speak of are things that very few people look at in their supposed temporal and social contexts. I don't disagree that the things you mention happen, but I do believe that they make more sense in their supposed context--whether you look at it as a historical book, a book of fables, or a fictional novel.

That said, what you mention in your last few sentences as your belief system seems to fit the gnostic ideas of the demiurge, and might be something worth looking into if you haven't already.

I can't say that I necessarily think that Christianity is wrong, so to speak, but that so many people take things too literal and out of context, as steamboat said. For me, though I'm not Christian and I don't believe in a deity, per se, I do know what it is to be a Christian since that's what I grew up with. I know the desire to want to be closer to God in my "heart of hearts" and to want nothing more than to live up to the inspired word of God. I found this thought pattern to be too restrictive and contradictory to my nature. There are things in the OT that weren't meant to be anything more than an account of the time they occured. I think the gospels were meant to set believers free from the dogma of their current religion, connecting them directly through to the Almighty instead of a supposed authority figure as intermediary. When a church was set up as yet another authority, the teachings of the Christ were skewed and once again corrupted into its former ways. This I believe is what went wrong. Jesus never said, "Create a church and act on my behalf as intermediary between people and God." He told his followers to spread the gospels -- the good news -- so as to save them from the ways of the old religion. That there is no more need to sacrifice for penance as he was the ultimate sacrifice for all. This is my understanding of it.

When people use their beliefs to justify their bigotry, hatred, and intolerance, that's where I have a problem. Not with the religion, itself, but with the people pushing their beliefs onto others, attempting to force their dogma, and therefore setting themselves up as an authority in another person's life. As if to say, "I know better what's good for you, so you better listen up and do as I say. If you have anything to say against me doing this, you are persecuting me for my beliefs. You must be saved and I can help you. Submit to me and my beliefs." I find this abhorrent to good reason and compassion.

Again, this isn't to say that I'm against Christianity or Christians, just some of their methods and practices, today.

Star Trek usually hasn't been so much about consistent long-term stories at that point, but I do like to think, because of many season transitions, inbetween episodes, the last and the final episodes of The Next Generation, that this particular series is about a character by the name of Q.

Q is an all-knowing, all-powerful, timeless, spaceless, limitless being that claims to be superior in every regard, benevolent and loving in all circumstance, and yet is toying with the crew of the Federation Starship Enterprise among other people, testing and tempting them, leading them to struggles so they learn and forcing them into situations so uncomfortable that they often can only be resolved by hard to make decisions. This character is not so much a parody as a caricature of the god that the western civilizations have been faithful to for so many centuries. Star Trek tells us that only because somebody has the might to do as he pleases doesn't guarantee goodness and in fact enables that person to be about as evil as he pleased.

Now, of course, Q doesn't exist and while certainly there will be somebody out there who believes he does, I would think that most of us agree that Q is a fictional character. The reason for that however is that we know who made him up and to what purpose and that every appearance he made was in just one science fiction show where every miracle he performed was enabled through computer generated special effects over at the Paramount Studios. It is not his immorality that make us doubt Q's existence.

If you want to make something really confusing, just add humans...

We can much up any party... lol....

I discuss the bible, and it's teachings with my Co-worker, a religious, and good man, and an Elder at his church... Some kind of progressive Christianity, it appears to me...

When you are looking at something, the minute a piece of the equation is subject to flaw, the whole equation becomes suspect...

When you put man in the equation of a God, a Force, or which beer tastes best, his opinions are going to be skewed...

So the bible, written by men, is suspect, when said to be the 'word' of God....

Him (co-worker) and I go back and forth, his logic appears (to me) to be like the 'automatic' writing of seances and possession...

Possible? Sure...

But, as we are fallible, I find it more likely that the message isnt clear enough (exactly what "God" would have wanted to say), or how could their be so many interpretations?

Plenty of good lessons in there, as well as those atrocities...

I hate getting the question, "Do you believe in God?" It never ends well for me unless I lie. :blush:

Maybe it's different for me because I live in the South, but it's still pretty rough coming out of the proverbial 'non-Christian' closet.

There are very few things I'm certain of in this world, but there are 3 things that I'm convinced are undeniably true:

1. The Tea Party is insane in the membrane. (I miss the '90's all of a sudden. )

2. There is absolutely no Hell whatsoever (I don't think there is a heaven either, but I'm unsure )

3. There is no Christian/Jewish/Muslim God.

As of late, while I've been working on my training, I've noticed that I've developed some Pagan-like views when it comes to our relationship with nature and our interconnectedness with each other and the planet, however I'm still unsure on what happens after death.

I'd like to think that we are reincarnated in some way/shape/form, making us kind of immortal in a way, which is a fascinating premise, or we simply cease to exist and our decomposing flesh becomes food for the worms and creepy-crawlies and our personality, our memories, our experiences, everything that makes us, well, us dies the moment brain functions end and is lost forever.

(Wow, that got kind of dark. )

On the subject of a God, if there is a God, (which I don't think is the case) I imagine it would be of a deistic nature. (Meaning it made the world and just said "Well, all done here." and flew off to Pluto or something.) I also imagine if there was a God would be a woman as opposed to a man. (Which makes much more sense.)

Let's flip this and see how it sounds to us, and how much sense it really makes to one of us... and then, maybe reflect on what we really think we know about Christianity and if we can really fairly generalize it in this way...

Sometimes people will tell me "May The Force Be With You". My first reaction is one of irritation and repulsion, because In my mind I think they are asking me "Do you believe in the Force from the Star Wars movies?". To that question, I would have to say no. I have struggled a long time with the beliefs that many so called "Jedi" have which stem from the movies, and this is because I have watched the movies many times, and have been repulsed and disgusted with the things contained within it. The Force portrayed in those movies sanctions the genocide of entire ethnic groups, the murder of thousands, the subjugation of women, among other social ills which we as a race have come to understand are horrible things. The Force of this movie sends Jedi who turn to the darkside without adequate repentance to an eternity of suffering and agony for a lifetime of misdeeds. Think about that. With the Force of the movies, our real lives must seem utterly boring and dull, an insignificant pinprick in the span of the galaxy. Yet in the context of that "Force", it expects us to wear robes, swing around lightsabers, move things with our minds, and do everything according to a prophecy, or we will live in fear and turn to a "dark side". So my response to that question is usually "No". I do not believe the Force of the movies exists. I do believe however that "a Force" exists. I believe there is a binding of all things. I believe that the true Force is completely different than any depiction humanity has made of it, and that the afterlife will be outside of any concept that anyone could possibly imagine or try to describe.

So to my Jedi friends at TOTJO, when it seems like I am attacking your religion with some of my posts, it's only because I am trying to get you to see that the Force in your fictional movies doesn't match up with what you claim it to be, an all magical, telekinetic field that gives you super-human powers. When you post that suicides, heretics, adulterers, murders, drug addicts, and other bad people all return to the Force, It just confuses the hell out of me because you seem to be talking about the Force of the movies, and if you have seen these movies you would know that all of those people end up being evil imperial lords that join the darkside and kill rebel scum.