Lessons:???

Kanto wrote:

Oola wrote: Woah, you can do the Joseph Cambpell write up? I am struggling with it too much, I can't even finish the source materials. I have no idea why it is so difficult for me to complete.... Maybe I should write down why I am having difficulty and then figure out how to overcome that? (To be honest Lesson one is going to be tackled last.)

In fact, I'm about to do one now. I had a flick through all the lessons and I got the impression that Joseph Campbell's interviews were going to be a bit of a foundation for the lessons that follow after - certainly it seems the most time consuming with the six videos all at 55 minutes a piece! I find the way to get through them is to watch them and make notes, then when it's done I go get a cup of tea or some such, perhaps talk it over with Mrs Kanto, then I start writing. I always start off as I write feeling like I don't get it, sometimes I'm just expanding on my notes, but without fail I get to the end of my writing and realise I did get it, I just need to clarify it all in my mind. There's certainly some big topics and themes in the interviews, and some conceptually difficult ideas too - not to mention they can sometimes ramble off on a tangent before coming back to the nub of the discussion.

Anyway - I'm sure if you give it a go and take your time and make notes you'll find it gets to being clearer. Also, and probably much wiser than listening to me ramble on, is to ask in the forums. All the Knights have done this already, not to mention a whole host of other Novices. I'm sure they'll all be happy to give you their take on it!!

Best of luck for your studies Oola

Thank you, I have a little art journal I take notes in, in correspondence to the lessons. I do not per se understand what was so difficult for me out of it but after some thought I'm sure it will come to light. I think with lesson one it was so hard to understand what it was about wheras with all the others it's more laid out in front of you. I will take your advice and I think that lesson One will be one I focus on for a rather extended timeframe.

I was going to look at other peoples responses but I stopped before I even read a students first response, I felt I would have cheated in some way. Because their response is due to their experience, their understanding of the lesson and their work. If I was to read their journals I would see their own responses and not my own and I think it would influence my work somehow on a subconscious level. I think I myself should understand what lesson one meant to me instead of what it meant to others, therefore I would understand the lesson better if I found my own understanding?

I also thank you for your input and taking the time to respond.

V-Tog wrote: I think that what one has to remember is that the point of the IP is to hopefully set the foundations for a lifelong faith. Such a thing cannot usually be achieved in a few short days...for most people dedicating oneself to a new path requires a great deal of thought and reflection.

I was a chronic rusher during my earlier days here - I completed the IP at a rate of roughly one exercise (i.e. chapter or essay) per day, and I really struggled to resist the temptation to do it faster. I'm just a naturally fast worker, and I was eager to learn. I was pretty pleased with myself when I finished it within a month, but now, looking back? Not so much. I honestly wish I had taken much more time to really reflect on the lessons in more depth. Would there have been anything to lose by doing so? Not really. Anything to gain? Definitely.

People say "I'm a fast reader" or "I write quickly" or "I've always been good with academic study" - but it's not about that stuff, right? Just because you can read something quickly doesn't mean that you've had time to think about it from every possible angle, to put it into practice in your daily life, to really start to understand how it affects your long-held view of the world...

We don't shout about it, but we do currently have a compulsory minimum timeframe in place. Not because we want to limit people or make them read slower - but because by the time they become an Apprentice, and later a Knight, we want to make sure that they really have had the time and space to understand what they are getting themselves into and what direction they want to go in with their Jedi path.

I think, basically, we don't mind people going quickly if it is clear that they have really put a lot of time and thought into it and that it isn't detrimental to their learning. But if people are rushing the work to gain rank, it doesn't go unnoticed. As Jestor said, everyone has their own natural pace and we all understand and respect that - it's just that, when working out what that natural pace is, it's important to remember that there's a lot more to the IP than just academic study.

I thank you for your input and voicing your own experiences sometimes things can become more clear when talking things out with others.
It's moreso not the fact I'm a fast learner or my mind moves quickly, the main factor is I have more time than others have to complete lessons. (Unemployed and Insomnia) SO I literally have day/night to complete these lessons.
I do understand where you are coming from though I understand that just because one can does not mean one should.
As for rushing to gain ranks, gaining ranks is not something I had in mind, I enjoy the knowledge itself and if I happen to be apprenticed or knighted than that is where my river takesme. If not than I learned an awful lot of useful things in the process!
With the lessons I have a process.

Thinking of the answer before putting it on paper>Writing dot points or notes> expanding on that into paragraphs or sentences> Thinking on what I could add or if I missed something>Meditating on the final product> The last step comes much later but revisiting ones work when all the lessons are completed!

tzb wrote: I must admit, I loved the Campbell lesson and have since bought several of his books, but there were other parts of the IP that I liked less and merely tolerated... I'd say the key thing is to not get too hung up on a single part of the programme if the rest speaks to you. Yes, you will need to complete that lesson if you plan to become an Initiate or higher, but you could do so either in one six-hour blast or over the course of a few weeks or months.

It would probably be just as useful or interesting for you to give a detailed response to why you didn't get a lot from the lesson, or found it particularly challenging... after all, your Initiate Journal is there to be read by prospective training masters. If you give a note-perfect response to Campbell after finding it a real chore, you might end up giving completely the wrong impression of your tastes and attitudes.

I know the guidance is to complete the lessons in the order listed, but if you make a note to explain why you'll be taking a detour I'm sure no-one's going to mind. Jediism as practised here at the Temple is not a one-size-fits-all religion... and that's also true of how long you "should" take to complete the programme. I thought I finished pretty quickly, and it took me a month... some people spend years on it, and others just a few days.

Perhaps you can see the logic in advising people to take their time and enjoy the lessons, even if not everyone will want to. They're not just about analysing the source material, they're there to make you consider the themes and ideas in relation to your wider perspective, your life and the path you're choosing by being here.

Welcome to the Temple, by the way! May the Force be with you on the road ahead.

Thank you for your response, I will take and absorb what you have posted here and apply it to my methods, I will add a little note stating why I have not completed the lessons in order. (It also states on the faq they do not have to be completed in order.) But I do think I should add a little note for Masters and knights as to why I did not.

I most certainly apply the lessons to everyday life so far, I often think and reflect and implement what I have learned.
(Plus these lessons are slowly starting to expand my way of thinking! A feeling I welcome!)

I think the Campbell lesson might take me a long length of time to complete...... (Readies cave and hermit robes) :laugh:

I can understand why you would say "it feels like cheating"...

But, is it much different than carrying on a conversation about the topic?

Shoot, most of us wrote our posts, and would probably add quite a bit, :lol:....

Maybe read a few, listen/watch the videos, and see what you think...

OOORRRRR, start a thread, and get s conversation going....

Oooorrrrr, send a PM to discuss it..

Or work it out, lol....

Let us know if we can help....

rugadd wrote: Looks like its been covered, but I thought I would throw in there that I did the first lessons over the course of a few weeks and then stopped with McTaggert. I'm still here, still learning and still considered a member of the community(atleast, I'm pretty sure!). On Jestor's advice I'll be taking Zenchi's soon and diving back, but I was reminded not to force in a sort of way(no pun intended) so I'll be taking my time.

By the way, Welcome!

Of course you still are a member of the community, on a thing such as this I think someone is constantly,guided,pledged and learning even after extended absences. The force does not leave us even when one thinks it has left it! (Or taken breaks)

It will also please me to learn alongside other members as they to grow.
I Thank you for your warm welcome and I to return it and greet you with warmth also.

Arcade wrote:

Oola wrote: On another note for some reason I am finding Lesson one the hardest out of all the lessons I could not finish it...(At least not yet) I find the others are more enjoyable to complete or that my mind takes to the challenges of the other lessons easier. This one is a challenge

Hi, Oola. I had a relatively easy time with the Campbell videos... but only because I'd listened to them previously (about 10 years before viewing them for the IP). To be honest, I didn't understand most of what he was talking about the first time through. I was in a very different place then (mentally and spiritually), and I'm sure that was part of why I wasn't grasping the material... though I also think it's reasonable to assume that the time I spent away from the series enabled me to look at the subject matter from different angles and sort some things out in my head.

Maybe give it a few days and go back to it? It is a lot to take in. I don't know if this would be helpful for you, but I found it beneficial to take notes while watching. Even if you don't think what you're writing is making sense, this might help you solidify your thoughts or decipher some of the ideas being presented.

All the best to you.

Thank you for your response, Thank you for taking the time to respond, I will take your response and use it as guidance for the lesson.

Jestor wrote: I can understand why you would say "it feels like cheating"...

But, is it much different than carrying on a conversation about the topic?

Shoot, most of us wrote our posts, and would probably add quite a bit, :lol:....

Maybe read a few, listen/watch the videos, and see what you think...

OOORRRRR, start a thread, and get s conversation going....

Oooorrrrr, send a PM to discuss it..

Or work it out, lol....

Let us know if we can help....

Without your opinion I would never had understood this is similar to reading journals. After reading that at first I felt Ignorant but then I remembered part of the code There is no Ignorance only knowledge! I was not being Ignorant I just did not have the full knowledge on the matter and I think with others insights I had gained that knowledge. And realized how I was seeing things could be approached in different ways.

Thank you for extending your help on the subject Bishop Jestor I'm sure I may need it when it comes time for it and the help of my fellow students or mentors.

Oola wrote: I was going to look at other peoples responses but I stopped before I even read a students first response, I felt I would have cheated in some way.

I don't think it's cheating, and here's why: learning from the experiences of another Jedi here is no different than learning from Campbell's experience. We're all in different places, we all see things from different perspectives, but you can learn a lot by how someone else interprets a thing. Not just by agreeing with it, but also by where you disagree with it. You may read something in my journal and say "that doesn't seem right..." and learn something about how you view it in the process.

Don't be afraid to read others' journals. As long as you're not just copying their entries word for word, whatever you write will be your own. Inspired by others, yes, but still yours. Quote other Jedi if you want. Tell us where you agree or disagree with Campbell, with Watts, with Jestor, with V-Tog.

Your journal is about you and your learning, so if you learn something from someone else, it's totally fine to plop it in there and give your take on it.

Way back when I did the ip there was a minimum timeframe of 3 months...and it was a smaller set of lessons back then...I powered through them all in about 3weeks while going to college fulltime and working fulltime, so I submitted them gradually and often found myself rereading them and making changes/additions just prior to submitting...while it feels like you're getting somewhere with the full speed approach, you'd be amazed at how much more you gain by taking more time and, as many of us do, revisiting those lessons...