IP discussion area

Dessel761 wrote: he problem I have is explaining what I have learned. It is also extra intimidating when I read others journals and other posts throughout the forums. Everyone is so well spoken and seem to have no problem putting their thoughts down. Does anyone have any tricks to help with this?

Just say it the way that sounds best to you. Ultimately, you're the only person you've got anything to prove to, and if it sounds good to you, it'll probably sound great to everybody else, too. And if it's not clear enough, well, that's what private-messaged questions are for, right?

You've got this. Don't compare yourself to anybody except who you were five minutes ago.

Like Steam said, just relax. Write your thoughts down as best you can. Another thing, this is not a one shot deal. In the years to come you will return to this material having gained in the areas of experience and knowledge and you will see things you didn't see before.

So I have since PM'd 2 other members to get their input but I'm still having difficulty in figuring this one out:

I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console;

So to me this means that I am so well put together mentally (and physically I guess) that I no longer need any help for myself, but instead I help others along life's big journey. Which is great and all but I don't think I'll ever get to the point where I would get to that point. I realize that'd be silly to think that's what it truly means, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what else it could mean aside from just helping someone else out.

Can I get some insight on this or where I should be looking for an idea?

isisinabi wrote: So I have since PM'd 2 other members to get their input but I'm still having difficulty in figuring this one out:

I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console;

So to me this means that I am so well put together mentally (and physically I guess) that I no longer need any help for myself, but instead I help others along life's big journey. Which is great and all but I don't think I'll ever get to the point where I would get to that point. I realize that'd be silly to think that's what it truly means, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what else it could mean aside from just helping someone else out.

Can I get some insight on this or where I should be looking for an idea?

Hint: Think - "Empathy"

Basically.. Think of others before you consider your own needs. That is the essence of the whole creed. It is a creed of service. I would not suggest over thinking it. If you find yourself ignoring everybody around you and only thinking of helping yourself everyday, maybe take a good look around you.

isisinabi wrote: Can I get some insight on this or where I should be looking for an idea?

I'd just say perhaps it's a function of intention. Some paths use the term 'view' to describe the framework of approaching action in such a way to enable more effective action, whether it be things like improving situational awareness, decision making or manifesting physical action. The creed uses words which have some implicit relationship through semantics and some barely useful structure from syntax, but symbols can also be used.... depending on if a person is more of a visual thinker.... as symbols represent concepts like words do but also can include information to point towards relationships, both internal to the formation of concepts and external to other formations of concepts. Don't ask me to do a symbol of the Creed LOL.
Those mental formations can serve best in various situations, like gateways to accelerate progress. I think the Creed viewed in this way represent's an 'intention gate' to work with developing or refining a tendancy to the ideals they represent, rather then a rule or law. Individually in reality, we can only try our best to meet the idealization we might exert upon ourselves - so any assessment of success should not be to the letter of the tool (in this case literal interpretation of the Creed) but to the intention and effort in the context of the actual circumstance, IMO.
Sorry if I'm being too wordy.

isisinabi wrote: So I have since PM'd 2 other members to get their input but I'm still having difficulty in figuring this one out:

I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console;

So to me this means that I am so well put together mentally (and physically I guess) that I no longer need any help for myself, but instead I help others along life's big journey.

Oh no. Nonono. It just means that you go out of your way to tend to the needs of others. You can still get all the help you need from others, just be more willing to give help where you can than to ask for it first. You'll need help on your journey, and we expect you to seek it.

steamboat28 wrote:

isisinabi wrote: So I have since PM'd 2 other members to get their input but I'm still having difficulty in figuring this one out:

I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console;

So to me this means that I am so well put together mentally (and physically I guess) that I no longer need any help for myself, but instead I help others along life's big journey.

Oh no. Nonono. It just means that you go out of your way to tend to the needs of others. You can still get all the help you need from others, just be more willing to give help where you can than to ask for it first. You'll need help on your journey, and we expect you to seek it.

Agreed, St. Francis of Assisi (who wrote the original version of this, a prayer) was trying to emphasize a mindset of selflessness and a regard for the needs of others before one's self.

Thanks all, I knew I was over thinking it but I wanted to be sure.

dragonwhisper wrote: As far as the IP goes (off the trending point), I would have appreciated Lesson 3: Meditation, to be placed as the second lesson. I think the knowledge of how to help you find your center/balance, after learning about it through Joseph Campbell's interviews would be helpful. Moving on to The Self after that, may make for an easier transition.

I had to jump in on this discussion-I agree that a lesson in finding center/balance would probably be beneficial to most; even something as basic as identifying what meditation is, different methods, etc. I know that once I hit my road block in the IP, it has benefitted me most finding different methods of meditation and applying them to my daily life, in conjuncture with the IP lesson I got stuck on. The fact that it has taken several weeks of evaluating myself and my surroundings and adjusting put a huge gap in my journal timeline and all in all was very discouraging. I'm finally beyond that and ready to continue with the IP but it has taken a long time for me to find something close to center for me to get the message out of the lesson.
I know that the IP is to be done at it's own pace it's really convenient, but I also understand why some people get frustrated and quit, or leave the Temple. Thankfully, for me, I have an in home resource and guide to help me and I also feel very comfortable talking to some of the Knights and other Members of the Temple.
In short, yes, the IP is excellent, and well structured. It is made clear that we do not have to accomplish it in the suggested order, but I think that openness leads to disorganization and chaos. This can work for some people who have a solid background, or who are capable of more abstract thought patterns, but for most people it is natural to do lessons in the recommended order. Perhaps a lesson could be added before jumping right in with Joseph Campbell because he is so eye-opening and gives so much information, it's easy to lose yourself in it. It's not beneficial to progress to become so questioning of everything in one's life so quickly-I know that the fear of a mental break was a very real concern for me.
Just my opinion.