Is the Internet a Right?

In the UK porn thread, we have this:

"
Connor Lidell wrote:
So the internet (at all) is a right?

Last time I checked, it was a privilege.

Desolous wrote:
this has been bothering me, cuz wes said something like this too. i almost got out of bed last night and wrote this, thats how much it has been bothering me.

what is a priviledge? it is defined as 'A special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to one person or group of people.'

what is a right? 'a just claim or title, whether legal, prescriptive, or moral.'

here, priviledge denotes someone or something ALLOWING you to do this or do that. you are under that things power. in this case, it is the governments. where the reverse should be truer in a more perfect world. the gov't is under OUR power, we the people continue to allow it to exist and continue to allow it to create more and more laws abridging our rights, skirt or ignore the same sets of laws when applicable toitself (im thinking 'illgal searches and seizures' brought to light in the snowden case lately. im sure you can think of a million more collectively).

the 'right' per this definition is legal, not of claim or title, and is created between me and whatever internet provider i have signed a contract with. it is not special, it is allowed to anyone with either the means to have a computer in their home and pay for access or that can obtain a library card. this guardian article goes into greater depth on the matter.

frankly, you already know the answer. imagine you are me, a small businessman in a highly competitive market. now imagine you have no access to the internet. you wont be in business long. so much is done over the internet, it has made things so convenient, that trying to go without it is simply not cost effective, and in many cases (like mine) flat impossible. access to it should not be restricted, it would be detrimental to most anyone i can think of (in fact, my elderly mother is the only one i know that does not use the computer at all). hell, i see a lot of the guys from my church homeless ministry at the library every time i go, almost always on the internet. how then should it NOT be a right?

so you may smirk, connor, and you may (whatever you did) wes, but yes, it is a right because i SAY it is a right, and would damn well fight over it, and so would billions of other sovereign citizens worldwide. and so would you, if someone tried to limit your access."

I disagree, Des. Anything you want to do? Your small business? Your lifeblood? It was given to you. You didn't create the internet. You didn't create the dial up system to hook up to the internet. You didn't make wi-fi. You didn't make the interface. You were given permission to use that data and power when the internet went public.

But, that doesn't mean you own it.

What you own is the information you put on the internet. If somebody was trying to take away your website you built from scratch, then you might have a case. But, I still think you would lose because it's a tool that you don't own. It's like a cell phone. Imagine you built an app and became a multimillionaire. Then, the government was like: "No... cell phones are destroying our brains! Let's go back to land lines!" (of course, that would be scary and there would be riots everywhere). But, if the government shut down cell phone service, and eliminated wi-fi, then you'd be out of luck and might run out of money. That's just how it is in this world. We have rights only because the government says we have rights. If we want more rights, we do have to fight for them, you're right.

And, you may.

I still understand that the internet is privileged to me by people who created it and the government (who, yes, were the first people to own the internet). And, I know it's not my right to control it. I can, however, fight for the privilege to use it if it becomes a necessary part of my life.

The web was invented at cern. the US gvt created the first packet switching network, between its labs at universities. the internet is a private enterprise. Most web servers are not at cern, and most of the infrastructure isn't owned by the US government.

Is the Internet a Right?

No more than water from the tap and electricity off a wire.

Connor, did you read the article I linked? Its much more informative than I am, citing supreme court decisions concerning rights to free sepech, free enterpprise, etc. As rickie pointed out, no more a right than basic utilities...which, of course, have been deemed basic human rights by many organizations many times over.

Our world depends on the net. To limit access is to limit interaction in this world. I find it highly ironic I'm even having to explain this on an internet forum.

To clarify my earlier post, the point isn't whether you have a right to access the internet but whether other people (such as the government) have a right to prevent you from accessing it.

The internet is a private enterprise (which is literally made of thousands of agreements between people to access each other's private property). The answer seems pretty obvious.

I think internet is like going shopping, you can go in each store, as long as you respect the rules...

Desolous wrote: Connor, did you read the article I linked? Its much more informative than I am, citing supreme court decisions concerning rights to free sepech, free enterpprise, etc. As rickie pointed out, no more a right than basic utilities...which, of course, have been deemed basic human rights by many organizations many times over.

Our world depends on the net. To limit access is to limit interaction in this world. I find it highly ironic I'm even having to explain this on an internet forum.

I disagree.

I think the internet is a commodity that has blown up to beyond epic proportions, quite literally too. Exponential growth of the internet has, yes, caused dependence on it. Like water or electricity being pumped into a house for convenience. I honestly cannot fathom how people think an invention is a right. It's not like the internet has always been here, and it's a part of the Earth's natural resources that we should all have access to because humans have no right over it.

To compare the internet to water... is quite ludicrous. One is necessary for survival. One is a convenience that has just become so large we don't know what we'd do without it.

Certainly, I think it's not a good thing for me if my internet was taken away. It does amazing good, and the privilege to use it should be fought for.

I also don't think it's a right.. something we MUST have access to at the same level as the trees and oxygen around us... it's more than that. People developed it. They crafted it and sent it into the world.

As for Ren's remark, I did know that. I figured it wasn't an important detail. Because, effectively it was the government that allowed the internet to be used by the public in the first place. Re: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Science_Foundation#Legislative_history

I'd like to mention, again, as it is being misinterpreted I think... The internet SHOULD be available to everybody. I don't disagree with that. What I DO have a problem with is people thinking it is a right on the same level as life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, etc.

Also, I think where a disparity is... is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet#Networks_that_led_to_the_Internet

If you go down a bit, you'll see that the government never had really any regulation of the internet in Great Britain. At least, that's what I gather. In which case, it's completely different from here in the US where the government allowed the internet to be used at all.

My pursuit of happiness involves he internet, connor. As does my freedom of speech, expression, religion, commerce, eetc.

You get the idea. When something is that necessary, it Becomes a right. Whether it is called that or not.

Connor Lidell wrote: I disagree...To compare the internet to water... is quite ludicrous. One is necessary for survival. One is a convenience that has just become so large we don't know what we'd do without it.

Can we discuss situations like this , which helped bring peace, justice, and stability to people's lives, or this , which helps to expose injustice that is (at times) literally life-threatening?

While it may not be as vital as dihydrogen monoxide to your physical well-being, it has become a necessary and vital tool in dismantling systematic injustice and, thereby, preserving life. And this is just on a macro-level; it isn't even remotely discussing the effect of the Internet on an individual level, where 24-hour suicide helplines are called for total strangers after they make self-threatening blog posts, or to people who utilize it to self-medicate with socialiation so we don't lose our minds in the middle of the night when our anxiety keeps us from breathing properly. Or, even the perfectly mundane task of applying for a job, when most modern companies expect an online application + a survey, and offer no computer terminal or kiosk on-site.