Asking God some questions

Our fellow Jedi Brenna posted a thoughtful photo and received several thumbs up.

Here is the pic:



Comments follow...

LTK - Give me your power God and then nobody will need to ask the question.

LTK - Or in other words, this message has a noble approach but I feel like it's defenders trying to help their impotent God pass the buck. And now I'm off! </soapbox>

Brenna - Is God somehow obligated to sort our messes out for us?

LTK - My answer would depend on how you define god. Is your god personified or something else?

Brenna - well, its kind of tricky because I dont have a god. But other people might... is their god obligated to fix their mistakes? Or should they have to take responibility for them and sort them out themselves?

Hadi Apollos - I stick out like a sore thumb amongst my mainstream Christian brethren, but I don't believe God interferes with our lives. I believe he set things in motion, and that's it. It's up to us to make our decisions. He doesn't cause disasters, He doesn't clean up our messes. That's just my thoughts, though.

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This thread is a continuation of that discussion...I would like to answer Brenna's question, but I gotta put the kids to bed first. Anyone else, feel free to chime in.

-LTK

Isn't the traditional concept that God is everywhere and within everything?

If that's the case, then wouldn't (couldn't) you taking initiative be God working through you, thus answering both questions at once?

Learn_To_Know wrote: LTK - Or in other words, this message has a noble approach but I feel like it's defenders trying to help their impotent God pass the buck. And now I'm off! </soapbox>

I think the commentary was not so much about letting their God pass the buck, as much as it is about people who use the excuse of "Gods will" or "Gods mysterious plan" to justify their own apathy. I think its a form of learned helplessness. The thought of I cant do anything because Gods supposed to be in charge, instead of taking responsibility for the impact of ones own actions and potential actions.

and.... What Proteus said!

Even if there is a personal god, he shouldn't interfere.
Just like children (since we are talking about a personal god we can say we are his children, no?) - if we were there every second cleaning up their messes and making sure they don't get hurt they will never learn or feel anything. We don't want bad things to happen to them, but as this is life we teach them how to handle it, hold our breath, sometimes panic a bit, and hope for the best. Could we protect them from most of it? Of course we could. Should we? No. I know people who try and have seen what happens to those children as adults.
The real question isn't if god should interfere or not - the real question is what the purpose of it all is. I think both Joseph Campbell and Alan Watts answered that question.. Which leads to the point Brenna was making: what can *I* do?

After some thinking, I've decided that regardless of what kind of god there might be, there should be no interference. There isn't a reason we can't fix our own problems ourselves.. Or rather, there isn't a reason we can't help and love each other without the interference of a "higher power". We don't need it, we just think it owes us something if it exists for some reason. It doesn't.

I think I am divine. I can not point a finger at anyone but me if I'm upset at the way things are going.

When we ask God questions privately -- we're just talking to ourselves. It can be a good contemplation time.

When we ask God questions when talking to someone else -- we're still just talking to ourselves yet, it can be a nice conversation and possibly a better argument ...

When we ask God questions when talking to two other people -- we're again just talking to ourselves, but the universe starts to morph .....

Tao Te Ching 42 :

The Tao gives birth to One.
One gives birth to Two.
Two gives birth to Three.
Three gives birth to all things. All things have their backs to the female
and stand facing the male.
When male and female combine,
all things achieve harmony. Ordinary men hate solitude.
But the Master makes use of it,
embracing his aloneness, realizing
he is one with the whole universe.

Brenna - well, its kind of tricky because I don't have a god. But other people might... is their god obligated to fix their mistakes? Or should they have to take responsibility for them and sort them out themselves?

I have to rearrange what I was thinking because I was expecting to answer you based on your belief in god (at least, judging by the image you posted). But since you don't have a god, this answer may not relate to you anymore. I guess it will be a theoretical discussion now.

Is god obligated to fix our mistakes? In the image, the issues in question are poverty, famine and injustice. Does god *want* to end poverty, famine and injustice? If god does, why do we still have these problems? If god doesn't, why are we asking god anything in the first place?

(Not sure where to take our discussion now, haha. so I'll comment on the other posts in the thread...)

Proteus wrote: Isn't the traditional concept that God is everywhere and within everything?

If that's the case, then wouldn't (couldn't) you taking initiative be God working through you, thus answering both questions at once?

That's a great point and mirrors what I believe the concept of *God* is. I try to alleviate suffering, limit my causing it, helping others through it, etc.

But I do that, because I believe people are all we have to do it. I don't believe some other-worldly, omnipotent being is really out there that will solve these problems for us.

But let's face it, people are doing a poor job at eliminating these problems, and if God is truly working through us, he's failing just as miserably as we are (speaking collectively, not discounting the great work individuals and organizations are doing with the limited means they have).

It's like if I have a landfill to clean up and I need earth-movers, but I choose a small remote control car with a 2 inch shovel on the end of it. Why the hell am I using something so inferior to the problem at hand? Likewise with the famine and poverty and injustice, c'mon God, pick something a little better to do the job!

This goes back to the question, does God want to end the problems or not?

Brenna wrote:

Learn_To_Know wrote: LTK - Or in other words, this message has a noble approach but I feel like it's defenders trying to help their impotent God pass the buck. And now I'm off! </soapbox>

I think the commentary was not so much about letting their God pass the buck, as much as it is about people who use the excuse of "Gods will" or "Gods mysterious plan" to justify their own apathy. I think its a form of learned helplessness. The thought of I cant do anything because Gods supposed to be in charge, instead of taking responsibility for the impact of ones own actions and potential actions.

Yeah, I agree with you. I think my initial impression of the message was clouded by my cynicism toward an omnipotent god.