Exodus International Apologizes and Shuts Down

Star, so can eating pizza or having blue eyes. Anything can be damaging. You could make that argument about anything, honestly.

Connor Lidell wrote: Star, so can eating pizza or having blue eyes. Anything can be damaging. You could make that argument about anything, honestly.

Yes, anything can be. But I've seen, in my experience, where homosexuality creates some miserable destructive lives. However, I concede that it may just be my experience, and ultimately, it's not worth starting a heated argument over.

Star Forge wrote: Yes, anything can be. But I've seen, in my experience, where homosexuality creates some miserable destructive lives.

This is related to and in direct proportion to the "discrimination, "homophobia," self hatred, or guilt" that you mentioned. The reason that some gay people have psychological problems and/or live destructive lives is because they are trying to deal with other people's fear, hatred, and misunderstanding. If the world were more accepting of homosexuality, this behavior would diminish drastically.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the act itself" being damaging. The "act" of me being born gay is somehow damaging? I think you're mistaking one's sexuality for their lifestyle. Those two words have become associated in the minds of those with more "conservative" views of homosexuality - and the association is inaccurate and illogical.

I appreciated your comments on Exodus International. The organization was harming a lot of people, many of whom may never fully recover from the therapy that they received.

Arcade wrote:

Star Forge wrote: Yes, anything can be. But I've seen, in my experience, where homosexuality creates some miserable destructive lives.

This is related to and in direct proportion to the "discrimination, "homophobia," self hatred, or guilt" that you mentioned. The reason that some gay people have psychological problems and/or live destructive lives is because they are trying to deal with other people's fear, hatred, and misunderstanding. If the world were more accepting of homosexuality, this behavior would diminish drastically.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the act itself" being damaging. The "act" of me being born gay is somehow damaging? I think you're mistaking one's sexuality for their lifestyle. Those two words have become associated in the minds of those with more "conservative" views of homosexuality - and the association is inaccurate and illogical.

I appreciated your comments on Exodus International. The organization was harming a lot of people, many of whom may never fully recover from the therapy that they received.

I of course cannot say with certainty that you are wrong. And again, my judgements are based solely on what I behold in my personal, individual experience. As you can see (or perhaps not, as I sometimes have a problem being clear), I've got no issue with homosexuals as a whole. I judge them just as I judge anybody else, person to person basis. I myself, in my experience (admittedly being a straight man with only a few homosexual friends), have seen high rates of promiscuity with corresponding rates of STDs, emotional problems, and the like. I apologize if this sounds like a stereotype, but again, this is my experience, as it is, unedited, and I again concede that it may be a biased sample and I could very well be 100% wrong.

And yes, you're very welcome. For all I am conservative, I have seen firsthand what many homosexuals have to suffer through at the hands of society, and it's a shame that organizations like Exodus- which, might I add, base their premises in religion rather than empirical evidence- were ever conceived in the first place.

Star Forge wrote: Yes, anything can be. But I've seen, in my experience, where homosexuality creates some miserable destructive lives. However, I concede that it may just be my experience, and ultimately, it's not worth starting a heated argument over.

But I've seen, in my experience, where heterosexuality creates some miserable destructive lives. However, I concede that it may just be my experience, and ultimate, it's not worth starting a heated argument over.

That is why I am against heterosexuality.

This position (so far as you've explained), as was pointed out by Conner, is so bland as to be worthless.

I would argue that it depends on how Metsu sees the word 'cure'. In the mind of this organisation it was a disease, thus it was 'curable' by their standards. We are applying our standards (that it is not a disease) upon them and judging them based on that...

I'm not saying they're right but whether or not you can 'cure' homosexuality simply depends on who you ask...

I am glad that an apology has been given by this company!

Desolous

disrespectful people and opinions do not automatically have my respect. why should they? respect is earned, not given.

I do agree that respect should be earned, yet on the other had I feel that most opinions should be heard out and the reasoning behind them understood even if they are absolutely insane. If we don't hear people out and try to see where they are coming from then how can we hope to learn and to teach?

on a side note, I would never do that to your precious baby!

Akkarin wrote:

Star Forge wrote: Yes, anything can be. But I've seen, in my experience, where homosexuality creates some miserable destructive lives. However, I concede that it may just be my experience, and ultimately, it's not worth starting a heated argument over.

But I've seen, in my experience, where heterosexuality creates some miserable destructive lives. However, I concede that it may just be my experience, and ultimate, it's not worth starting a heated argument over.

That is why I am against heterosexuality.

This position (so far as you've explained), as was pointed out by Conner, is so bland as to be worthless.

I would argue that it depends on how Metsu sees the word 'cure'. In the mind of this organisation it was a disease, thus it was 'curable' by their standards. We are applying our standards (that it is not a disease) upon them and judging them based on that...

I'm not saying they're right but whether or not you can 'cure' homosexuality simply depends on who you ask...

I am glad that an apology has been given by this company!

To clarify, I mean that this has been the majority of homosexuals I have encountered, or at least a disproportionately large number, and that I see a very common and prevalent pattern of problems among homosexuals. Again, I'm not claiming that the world of mental health professionals should base anything on my personal experience, and again, I'm not feeling like a heated argument. This is my stance, I've more than enough experience to base it on, and again, it could just be my idiosyncratic experience. And most importantly, I respect the dignity of everybody, no matter what they like in their ass, so no reason to get butthurt, no pun intended.

Star Forge wrote: I myself, in my experience (admittedly being a straight man with only a few homosexual friends), have seen high rates of promiscuity with corresponding rates of STDs, emotional problems, and the like. I apologize if this sounds like a stereotype

Well, it is a stereotype. The greater majority of gay men and women are not promiscuous.

STDs in the gay community have been in steep decline since the 1990s. A big part of this is that there are now educational resources for gay men and women and much more is known about the spread and treatment of STDs and HIV. Certain STDs are more prevalent in homosexuals, just as certain STDs are more prevalent in heterosexuals.

Anyone aged 20-24 is considered to be at significantly higher risk of contracting sexually transmitted diseases than people in other age groups. There has recently been an alarming increase in HIV infections in low-income heterosexuals in urban areas in the U.S., and drug/needle users have always been high-risk, no matter what their sexuality.

Star Forge wrote: This is my stance, I've more than enough experience to base it on, and again, it could just be my idiosyncratic experience.

Clearly, you haven't, or you would realize that what you're saying is inaccurate and uninformed.

Arcade wrote:

Star Forge wrote: I myself, in my experience (admittedly being a straight man with only a few homosexual friends), have seen high rates of promiscuity with corresponding rates of STDs, emotional problems, and the like. I apologize if this sounds like a stereotype

Well, it is a stereotype. The greater majority of gay men and women are not promiscuous.

STDs in the gay community have been in steep decline since the 1990s. A big part of this is that there are now educational resources for gay men and women and much more is known about the spread and treatment of STDs and HIV. Certain STDs are more prevalent in homosexuals, just as certain STDs are more prevalent in heterosexuals.

Anyone aged 20-24 is considered to be at significantly higher risk of contracting sexually transmitted diseases than people in other age groups. There has recently been an alarming increase in HIV infections in low-income heterosexuals in urban areas in the U.S., and drug/needle users have always been high-risk, no matter what their sexuality.

Star Forge wrote: This is my stance, I've more than enough experience to base it on, and again, it could just be my idiosyncratic experience.

Clearly, you haven't, or you would realize that what you're saying is inaccurate and uninformed.

This is what I have seen. I do not spend much time thinking about this, nor is it a big major issue for me. This is simply what I have witnessed. Again, I have said many times that I fully am aware that this could be my own unique experience. I have not at any point presumed to cast judgement on gays across the world. All I'm saying is that, while I'll never be roped into the whole "gay rights" thing, I've no issue with gays in the least, provided that they don't badger, tar and feather me about my own views on this.

I wouldn't presume to condemn you as a person Star...I appreciate your candor. I would like to suggest that you consider that it might be a bit presumptuous to see people with emotional, destructive tendencies and then stop at the conclusion "must be because their gay.". I've got a strong feeling that this is likely based in examples of this type of thinking you had growing up. Often, when we believe something strongly but can't really explain why, it is because someone told us so and we believed them.