Judas Iscariot

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08 Apr 2013 13:35 - 08 Apr 2013 13:35 #101974 by
Replied by on topic Re: Judas Iscariot
Within the context of the musical libretto, Judas is disappointed that Jesus does not use his divine power to accomplish his goals. Within the social context and times in which the musical was written, Judas was interpreted as having a political agenda and so misunderstood Jesus who rejected the view of a political messiah that would rid Judea of Roman occupation. Within the context of first century society, Judas is not alone in his disappointment with Jesus who surrounds himself with sinners. Remember that all the Apostles' abandoned Jesus in the face of political/military power (either the Temple Guard or Roman soldiers).

There is a strong element in the musical of preordination. According to the divine plan, Jesus must die and Judas condemns God for making him the instrument of the necessary death of Jesus.

Contemporary (20th century) interpretations make the relationship of Jesus and Judas closer than is indicated in the Gospel of Matthew. The discovery of the Gospel of Judas is recent and is not an influence on the composition of the musical. Of more influence was the theology of the sacred fool (see Harvey Cox).
Last edit: 08 Apr 2013 13:35 by .

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09 Apr 2013 00:20 #102054 by
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Whyte Horse wrote: Jesus was crucified because the Jews wanted it.


So it is the Jews fault is it? Funny thing, if my memory serves me right.. all of the Disciples were Jewish as were all of the original Christians.

Also if it serves me right.. it was the Romans who put him on the cross not the Jews.

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09 Apr 2013 00:31 #102055 by Wescli Wardest
Replied by Wescli Wardest on topic Re: Judas Iscariot
People outside the faith can observe, comment and assign blame. Many of the people that studied the religion and the text (the Bible) understand that the blame is beside the point. Jesus was sent here for that purpose.

I guess what intrigues me is, if someone doesn’t believe in a particular faith or the members of that faith’s religion, why worry about it?

Monastic Order of Knights

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09 Apr 2013 00:47 #102056 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic Re: Judas Iscariot
To be fair, the Romans didn't really want to do it according to the Biblical narrative--there was political motivation in it for them, but mostly the priests kind of whipped the crowd into a frenzy and demanded his execution.

That being said, the Jews are not to blame, any more than Judas is, because Christ knew it was going to play out that way--had to play out that way--or his entire mission would be lost. It isn't fair to assign blame for things done according to a cosmic plan you know nothing about.
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09 Apr 2013 00:49 #102057 by Whyte Horse
Replied by Whyte Horse on topic Re: Judas Iscariot

Rav Adam wrote:

Whyte Horse wrote: Jesus was crucified because the Jews wanted it.


So it is the Jews fault is it? Funny thing, if my memory serves me right.. all of the Disciples were Jewish as were all of the original Christians.

Also if it serves me right.. it was the Romans who put him on the cross not the Jews.

I wasn't blaming anyone, just pointing out why he was given the death penalty by Pontius Pilate. The Roman courts kept decent records and the records show the Romans didn't want anything to do with Jesus but the Jews insisted he be crucified and they got their way.

Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.

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09 Apr 2013 01:09 #102064 by
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Whyte Horse wrote:

Rav Adam wrote:

Whyte Horse wrote: Jesus was crucified because the Jews wanted it.


So it is the Jews fault is it? Funny thing, if my memory serves me right.. all of the Disciples were Jewish as were all of the original Christians.

Also if it serves me right.. it was the Romans who put him on the cross not the Jews.

I wasn't blaming anyone, just pointing out why he was given the death penalty by Pontius Pilate. The Roman courts kept decent records and the records show the Romans didn't want anything to do with Jesus but the Jews insisted he be crucified and they got their way.


Really and outside of the NT where exactly are these Roman records that claim Pontius Pilate did it because the Jews forced them?

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09 Apr 2013 01:18 - 09 Apr 2013 01:22 #102067 by
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Scholars date each Gospel differently, but all of them were written at least a generation after the events they narrate. Matthew, which serves as the source for Godspell, probably was written between 80 and 90 c.e. Each gospel narrative has its own theological agenda. Internal evidence points to Matthew being Jewish and writing for a Jewish audience. Christianity started as a Jerusalem-based reform movement within Judaism. After the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 c.e. Judaism intentionally reoriented its practices away from the Temple and toward a rabbinical focus. It was in this nascent transitional period following the destruction of the Temple that the Gospel of Matthew was written.

There are no contemporary references to Jesus outside the Christian scriptures. There is perhaps one references to Pilate from Roman sources, none mention Jesus.
Last edit: 09 Apr 2013 01:22 by .

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09 Apr 2013 07:11 #102153 by
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Whyte Horse wrote: Jesus wasn't betrayed by Judas. Jesus was crucified because the Jews wanted it. They later blamed Judas and "lost" the book that showed Jesus told Judas to tell the Romans to come and get him.

We found the "lost" book...


the quotation marks should be placed around "found".

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14 Apr 2013 11:40 #103099 by
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I think the Judas story is a good story depending on what you're looking for and your approach to christianity or any abrahamic faith, to be honest, the story of peter is much better, because it involves the betrayel of Christ but also the redemption of the sinner

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