In Context

09 Jan 2016 18:26 - 10 Jan 2016 00:34 #220423 by Reacher
In Context was created by Reacher
I caught this gem and thought it was worth posting.

I never really put much consideration into what the conflicts in Obi-Wan Kenobi's life cost him personally. I wonder if, beyond the 'more powerful than you can possibly imagine' aspect of allowing himself to be killed by Darth Vader, a human aspect of Obi-Wan was still in enormous pain over what happened with his apprentice, and wanted to end it by dying in an act of love. I'll need to do more thinking on this and would love to hear your thoughts.

Beyond that, I felt massive empathy for the character in this edited version. I don't know if other combat veterans felt similarly watching, but what we say and what we see are often two very different things in situations like this. My hope is that this illustration can help bridge the experience of when a person asks questions very personal to us that seem innocuous and harmless.

Jedi Knight

The self-confidence of the warrior is not the self-confidence of the average man. The average man seeks certainty in the eyes of the onlooker and calls that self-confidence. The warrior seeks impeccability in his own eyes and calls that humbleness. The average man is hooked to his fellow men, while the warrior is hooked only to infinity.
Last edit: 10 Jan 2016 00:34 by Adder.
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10 Jan 2016 02:18 - 10 Jan 2016 02:46 #220494 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic In Context
i feel that obiwan is the most heroic and most tragic character in the stories

he constantly finds himself in situations where there are no good choices
he makes the best choice he can, and pursues it whole heartedly, and still people suffer as a result

i think its easy to blame him, yet without the benefit of hindsight, i personally find it difficult to fault him

i imagine he blamed himself for quite a lot though

People are complicated.
Last edit: 10 Jan 2016 02:46 by OB1Shinobi.
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10 Jan 2016 10:10 #220563 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic In Context
When reviewing the OT I try to remember that they were completed some twenty years before Lucas' later vanity project.
The fall of Anakin Skywalker is of course canon by the time the credits for Return Of The Jedi roll, but it is a stretch to say that the vision the team had of what happened in the 80's was quite what we saw on screen in 2005.

Now, all that being said, while I do think that knowing the devastating revelations of The Empire Strikes Back and Return Of The Jedi, we can retrospectively say that when Obi-Wan initiated Luke on his adventure there were some ugly memories long buried floating up in him. Nonetheless for the same reason I think Obi-Wan is being very controlled and by no means emotional in that scene. He chooses his narrative and his words very carefully, calculating with precision what buttons of Luke's to push as to set him on a path that will restore what he believes to be a better kind of galaxy. Indeed, it could be said that he leaves nothing to coincidence. Every choice he makes, everything he does from the moment he meets Luke is designed to further his plan. It would not even surprise me much if he knew of the attack on uncle Owen and aunt Beru, at least when it happened. He sees in Luke not only a new, but the only hope and so he invests everything he has left into that boy, but none of it is weakness. At every stage he knows exactly what he is doing.

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
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10 Jan 2016 10:54 - 10 Jan 2016 10:57 #220567 by tzb
Replied by tzb on topic In Context
Powerful, beautiful.

I agree it was probably not the original intention of this scene to be taken in this way (Obi-Wan the PTSD sufferer) but it's an interesting application of the Prequel Trilogy. It brings out some of his stoicism, and his quiet dignity. Compare Obi-Wan the wary and cunning elder to Obi-Wan the sarcastic, fraternal, ballsy warrior. The scenes with Obi and Ani in the PT were by far the most worthwhile, for me.

We live with our choices, and carry what we must. Obi-Wan is a good example of that.
Last edit: 10 Jan 2016 10:57 by tzb.

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10 Jan 2016 11:10 #220568 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic In Context
I think he would have 'felt' something was up, it being confirmed by suddenly being beckoned to Alderaan by the appearance of R2 with Luke in tow, but to what extent and what nature I think he did not yet know. Sending a droid with a message was probably a normal way to reach operatives working under cover, given droids were buzzing around all over the place half the time. I reckon he was just keeping the cover up for which he'd been maintaining for however many years. Once things starting deteriorating with the Jawa's and Owen's I think he had no choice to make the invitation a little more binding, for Lukes protection.

He probably had to put if out of his mind for all those years so that Vader didn't feel him through the Force... and revisiting it, and explaining it to Luke might have elicited an emotional response - like portrayed nicely in that vid.

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
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11 Jan 2016 04:22 - 11 Jan 2016 04:46 #220793 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic In Context
found a transcript of an interview with lucas in 81 where he talks about obiwan throwing anikan into a volcano


transcript here:
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

pretty interesting read i thought, especially the parts about yoda and richard nixon
also it shows that the force was originally seen as truly universal - i really felt it was a huge mistake to go the route of "midichlorians"

anyway, i think ben knew what was happening, or he figured it fairly quickly

understand: he didnt see the message right away, and maybe it would have made a difference if he had and maybe not, but as soon as he saw the holo of leia saying "help me obi-wan" with the death star plans inside the droid, he put two and two together

he knew leia was in trouble and he knew vader was on the way
and he knew vader would find luke and his family very quickly

this is why i say he is easy to blame, but what would you have done?

asfar as he could know, vader was (or his scouts were) already on lukes front porch

he could not go back - he especially could not let luke go back

he didnt choose the moment or the context of lukes getting involved - maybe he should have done things differently before that point (again, easy to blame him - in hindsight) but once the events got moving he had to adapt to them as they were

he lost qui gon because he fell, or was knocked down, and couldnt move fast enough to catch up

and in a way, thats how he lost everyone else too,
including anakin and including lukes aunt and uncle

People are complicated.
Last edit: 11 Jan 2016 04:46 by OB1Shinobi.

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