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Discussion Two: INSIDE INFORMATION

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16 years 10 months ago #2308 by

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Discussion Two: INSIDE INFORMATION

Read, Think and Post your thoughts by Saturday

Br. John

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<br><br>Post edited by: Br. John, at: 2007/05/19 23:43

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16 years 10 months ago #2321 by

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Note - It's not too late to register and catch up.

Br. John
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16 years 10 months ago #2332 by

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Replied by on topic Re:Discussion Two: INSIDE INFORMATION
These are going to be thrown out at random as I think over what I have read and what sticks out to me the most at the moment.
The taboo that kept jumping out at me is from the teachings I grew up under as a Baptist. The back of my mind kept saying to me, \&quot;You are not God and God is not you. You are just a man.\&quot; All the time while my beliefs were agreeing in Mr. Watts words. The fact that he actually had said what I have been saying for the past eight years or so about accepted religions having become too complicated to explain to someone of our modern day. Most believers have just accepted what they have been told with a, \&quot;Duh, ok. If you say so\&quot; attitude. They are locked up within their own minds as to not be able to question anything outside of what the \&quot;authority\&quot; has told, taught, or lead them to believe. If you actually use the teachings that God is everywhere at once that is taught by most major religions, it supports us being God and God being us. If God is everywhere at once, God would have to be us. I am part of the whole and the whole is me.
Why do we feel we have to conquor everything? When I climb a mountain, it is so I can see a better view of the world I am a part of. Not to say, \&quot;I beat you mountain.\&quot; I have not defeated the mountain. If anything, I have become one with it as I now share it's view of all that surrounds it for the time I am there.
\&quot;Irrevocable commitment to any religion is not only intellectual suicide; it is positive unfaith because it closes the mind to any new vision of the world.\&quot;
\&quot;Faith is, above all, openness--an act of trust in the unknown.\&quot;

I love both of these statements. It is because of the close-mindedness of the religion I was brought up under that I sought my own path. Saying that their way was the absolute and only way never seemed right to me. It left no room for faith. It demanded to be accepted as fact. Fact does not require faith.
At this level of existence \&quot;I\&quot; am immeasurably old; my forms are infinite and their comings and goings are simply the pulses or vibrations of a single and eternal flow of energy.
This sounds like a discription of the Living Force to me. We are all part of the Living Force, this \&quot;single and eternal flow of energy.\&quot; But, we are generally blinded to this truth due to the way the modern world has set the rules as to the way things are. We are raised to believe a certain set of rules governed by whatever society we grow up in. The society tells us what is an acceptible course of action and belief is. Most have established a God or Gods as the focal point and leave no room for personal interpatation.
I loved the story Mr. Watts spun to explain the answers to the basic questions that do come to a child at some point or another. Though it explained things sufficently, it also left plenty of room for the child to continue to think and develope reasoning to him or herself and continue to ask more questions and have faith.
The Vedanta philosophy of nothing exists except God is like our belief of everything being of and in the Force. We may look like individual points of light, but we are really just all rays of the light. Even after death, we are still the Force.
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16 years 10 months ago #2333 by

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Replied by on topic Re:Discussion Two: INSIDE INFORMATION
These are going to be thrown out at random as I think over what I have read and what sticks out to me the most at the moment.
The taboo that kept jumping out at me is from the teachings I grew up under as a Baptist. The back of my mind kept saying to me, \&quot;You are not God and God is not you. You are just a man.\&quot; All the time while my beliefs were agreeing in Mr. Watts words. The fact that he actually had said what I have been saying for the past eight years or so about accepted religions having become too complicated to explain to someone of our modern day. Most believers have just accepted what they have been told with a, \&quot;Duh, ok. If you say so\&quot; attitude. They are locked up within their own minds as to not be able to question anything outside of what the \&quot;authority\&quot; has told, taught, or lead them to believe. If you actually use the teachings that God is everywhere at once that is taught by most major religions, it supports us being God and God being us. If God is everywhere at once, God would have to be us. I am part of the whole and the whole is me.
Why do we feel we have to conquor everything? When I climb a mountain, it is so I can see a better view of the world I am a part of. Not to say, \&quot;I beat you mountain.\&quot; I have not defeated the mountain. If anything, I have become one with it as I now share it's view of all that surrounds it for the time I am there.
\&quot;Irrevocable commitment to any religion is not only intellectual suicide; it is positive unfaith because it closes the mind to any new vision of the world.\&quot;
\&quot;Faith is, above all, openness--an act of trust in the unknown.\&quot;

I love both of these statements. It is because of the close-mindedness of the religion I was brought up under that I sought my own path. Saying that their way was the absolute and only way never seemed right to me. It left no room for faith. It demanded to be accepted as fact. Fact does not require faith.
At this level of existence \&quot;I\&quot; am immeasurably old; my forms are infinite and their comings and goings are simply the pulses or vibrations of a single and eternal flow of energy.
This sounds like a discription of the Living Force to me. We are all part of the Living Force, this \&quot;single and eternal flow of energy.\&quot; But, we are generally blinded to this truth due to the way the modern world has set the rules as to the way things are. We are raised to believe a certain set of rules governed by whatever society we grow up in. The society tells us what is an acceptible course of action and belief is. Most have established a God or Gods as the focal point and leave no room for personal interpatation.
I loved the story Mr. Watts spun to explain the answers to the basic questions that do come to a child at some point or another. Though it explained things sufficently, it also left plenty of room for the child to continue to think and develope reasoning to him or herself and continue to ask more questions and have faith.
The Vedanta philosophy of nothing exists except God is like our belief of everything being of and in the Force. We may look like individual points of light, but we are really just all rays of the light. Even after death, we are still the Force.
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16 years 10 months ago #2334 by

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Replied by on topic Re:Discussion Two: INSIDE INFORMATION
FYI: The readings were published in 1966.

JHP
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16 years 10 months ago #2345 by

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I caught the 1966 when I first opened the pages up. It was nice seeing it in someone elses words still.
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16 years 10 months ago #2348 by

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Replied by on topic Re:Discussion Two: INSIDE INFORMATION
This theme is the heart of Jediism.
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16 years 10 months ago #2362 by

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Replied by on topic Re:Discussion Two: INSIDE INFORMATION
I, of course, am going to answer as what I am, A Christian (Christ centered) Jedi. Not only that, but as a few of you know, I am a fundementalist of the Bible. I also, however, love, love, love, talking about it and am an apologist. I am going to (at times) sound like one of the closed minded folks so aptly described in the pages of this first chapter. I am not, trust me. But I do vary in regard to faith and execution of such, from most others.

The first and unpressed message of the work in jedi terms is to unlearn what you have learned. The majority of us learn at a young age that we are mere mortals (though we may not pick up on this until much later in life). What we are not told is how much bearing this does and does not have spiritually. We don't learn, until much later that is, That it is death which makes life so important. We also don't learn that life is not as important as it may seem. For Christians this is shown to us at a young age but is not really clarified until we commit. Until we search out the meanings of Christ's parables. Christ was once asked by his disciples why he spoke in riddles and parables to the people. His answer was so obvious and yet so mysterious.
It is found in Mathew 13:10-17 and is as follows(NIV Version):

10The disciples came to him and asked, \&quot;Why do you speak to the people in parables?\&quot;

11He replied, \&quot;The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
\&quot;Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
\&quot; 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.'[a] 16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.


This is to say that while those outside the faith see us crazy fundementals (meant in Love not malice) as closed minded, we view others exactly the same.

So then the comment \&quot;Irrevocable commitment to any religion is
not only intellectual suicide; it is positive unfaith because it closes the mind to any new vision of the world.\&quot; is not a disparagment but a Blessing. He is right, we don't want a new way to see The world. We want a way to see beyond the world. To see and attempt to understand the mystery beyond this life and this existence. And so in unlearning that which we have learned we are not giving up Christ, but attempting new ways of finding him. We are looking for the ways the Lord has layed out for us to understand that which will not be understood except by those who have committed and search.

Regarding the Great Taboo, he is right again, but not in the literal sense. I am not God within myself. But i do have God within myself. While I do not claim to be a God you can easily see how I am a temple of God and as such we are in a very real way One. To relate this to Jediism, I am not the Force, but I am of the Force and the Force is within and flows through me. So likewise we are in a very real way One. And so additionally are all others.

This message should not be overlooked by Christian Jedi(or any Jedi for that matter) either. while in the sense that he has said it does not fully comply, it does teach one important truth. Only YOU can commit. Not just to Christ but to anything. It is you and only you who can make these decisions. The decision to search.

The philosopher Sören Kierkegaard had a great deal to say on this as well. in the final Chapter of his Book \&quot;Purity of Heart Is to Will One Thing\&quot; (which can be found in full here: http://www.religion-online.org/showbook.asp?title=2523) He had this to say to the Lord : Father in Heaven! What is a man without Thee! What is all that he knows, vast accumulation though it be, but a chipped fragment if he does not know Thee! What is all his striving, could it even encompass the world, but a half-finished work if he does not know Thee: Thee the One, who art one thing and who art all! So may Thou give to the intellect, wisdom to comprehend that one thing; to the heart, sincerity to receive this understanding; to the will, purity that wills only one thing. In prosperity may Thou grant perseverance to will one thing; amid distractions, collectedness to will one thing; in suffering, patience to will one thing. Oh, Thou that giveth both the beginning and the completion, may Thou early, at the dawn of day, give to the young man the resolution to will one thing. As the day wanes, may Thou give to the old man a renewed remembrance of his first resolution, that the first may be like the last, the last like the first, in possession of a life that has willed only one thing. Alas, but this has indeed not come to pass. Something has come in between. The separation of sin lies in between. Each day, and day after day something is being placed in between: delay, blockage, interruption, delusion, corruption. So in this time of repentance may Thou give the courage once again to will one thing. True, it is an interruption of our daily tasks; we do lay down our work as though it were a day of rest, when the penitent (and it is only in a time of repentance that the heavy-laden worker may be quiet in the confession of sin) is alone before Thee in self-accusation. This is indeed an interruption. But it is an interruption that searches back into its very beginnings that it might bind up anew that which sin has separated, that in its grief it might atone for lost time, that in its anxiety it might bring to completion that which lies before it. Oh, Thou that givest both the beginning and the completion, give Thou victory in the day of need so that what neither a man’s burning wish nor his determined resolution may attain to, may be granted unto him in the sorrowing of repentance: to will only one thing.

So I say that it is in the giving that we recieve. and in the pardoning what we are pardoned. And in order to fullfill our quest to discover \&quot;The God within\&quot; (used very loosly I'm afraid) we must fully commit. We must not pick and choose beliefs but fully immerce our selves and to Will only on thing, That is the Will of the Force and for me God. And only by this committment can we truly discover our inner God.
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16 years 10 months ago #2373 by

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I stated in discussion one that I am. The chapter of this book presented here leads me to expound on that statement. I am you. I am these words. I am him. I am her. I am everything I am nothing. The point this chapter makes to me is a wonderful and very eye-opening revelation. I have been attracted to the Force for a very long time. The idea of the Force struck such a strong chord with me the first time I saw \&quot;Star Wars.\&quot; When the movie \&quot;The Matrix\&quot; came out. I found the idea of the world being an illusion very appealing. But now, thanks to this posting, it's so much more clear. The fog of \&quot;I and me\&quot; are gone and now I realize there is just the Force. The Force is in me and around me. The Force is me! Thank you Br. John!
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16 years 10 months ago #2407 by Garm

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Replied by Garm on topic Re:Discussion Two: INSIDE INFORMATION
After reading this article I sat down and made some notes and then wrote a rather lengthy piece covering what I did not agree with and why. Last night I decided to not to be so critical of Mr. Watts work, figuring that this is his viewpoint and who am I to dissect his every thought. I will express my views on a few points though.

I’ll start with “There are indeed secrets in the bible, and some subversive ones, but they are all so muffed up in complications, in archaic symbols and ways of thinking that Christianity has become incredibly difficult to explain to a modern person.” This is my favorite Pet Peeve of organized religion, and in all fairness Christianity is not the only faith to suffer from this. Of all the religious literature I have read, the bible has been the hardest (for me) to follow. Personally I get lost in the terminology and symbolism and end up putting it back on the shelf. I think that the story or message is what needs to be conveyed. The text in its original form is important but for people like me, because of the wording we loose out on a wonderful story. Perhaps I need to purchase a copy of \&quot;the Bible for Dummies.\&quot; Me being the dummy, not the Bible.

Now we have “Irrevocable comment to any Religion is not only intellectual suicide; it is positive unfaith because it closes the mind to any new vision of the world.” For me, this is the reason that I do not belong to any one religion and the primary reason that I joined our group. My background supports the Jedi beliefs, and every Jedi in our order brings to the table their own religious backgrounds. Here we learn from each other, together we can only grow. I recall something I read, quoting a bumper sticker, “Minds, like parachutes, must be open to function.

Next is ‘“I” am immeasurably old; my forms are infinite and their comings and goings are simply the pulses or vibrations of a single and eternal flow of energy.” For me, Mr. Watts has just described the living force, and he wrote these words in 1966, un-influenced by the films proving that the idea is not born from a film script.

On the subject of fundamental metaphysical questions, the like of “Where did the world come from? Why did God make the world? Where do people go when they die?” Mr. Watts used the circle (I presume the circle of life with a little twist) an explanation as good as any other that I’ve heard.

I’m going to venture into a very personal viewpoint, and please bear with me, its only how I see the subject metaphysical question.
It may be the reason I was (pre)destined toward the path of the Buddha, and now to Jediism. I have held the following Ideal from a very young age, 10 years old or so. I have never understood why so much time, energy and thought is spent on this issue. To me the question is unanswerable while we exist in our present form. I embrace the world and life around me making the most of the present time. I live simply trying to be a better person than the one I was yesterday. I understand that I cannot stop my inevitable destiny, as Jim Morrison once said “No one gets out alive.” So when I reach the last page, and the great book of my life is ended, the truth will then be reveled, so why worry?
I see an awakening not an ending.
Buddhism has a saying that kind of says it all.
-The present moment is a wonderful moment
breath smile

MTFBWU
Lenny
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