The Force and the Ultimate Deity

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11 Dec 2019 08:18 #347111 by Praetorian
In my travels it has occurred to me that the Force of the Jedi has strong parallels with the most universal notions of God. There are four key concepts which underlie the basic understandings of God (in the most supreme sense). these are usually known as the 4 tenets of God. They are; Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnibenevolence and thereby Omnipotence. It is interesting is it not that the definitions of the Force fit quite tightly with this perspective? Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Jainism, and practically every indigenous culture all have universally developed practically the same set of root assumptions about the most rudimental nature of the Source of All That Which Is.

Any thoughts/ideas?:)

Veritas Aequitas...
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11 Dec 2019 08:35 #347114 by JamesSand
You're not even wrong.

Where did you travel?

Of your four concepts, the only one as I see it that could likely be attributed the Force is omnipresence.

The Force is not only disinterested, it is incapable of interest, it simply is. It's just not Odin in a new suit.

The Force is not even necessarily the source of all things, it is all things.

You can not please the force. It does not test us, it does not ask anything of you, it promises, and delivers, nothing.
Some here may not agree with me, I'm sure there are plenty that don their organic linen fisherman pants and meditate to the sunrise hoping the Force will bless them with wisdom for the day.

It might have some similarities with some Jainism concepts.

HOWEVER, I have two far more fascinating thoughts.

1. God is Dog spelled backwards.
2. Everyone with a pulse seems qualified to add garbage to the internet.
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11 Dec 2019 09:14 #347119 by Praetorian
There are plenty of references to the sentience of the force. How many times is the term "will of the force" used in the Star Wars drama? suggesting not only an awareness but also an agenda or purpose in "mind".


Where do you get the ideas of "pleasing" or being "tested" by anything? Neither were suggested, even through implication.

As to it delivering nothing, I beg to differ but can agree to disagree.

And to point 2 of your epiphany...we live in a house of mirrors my friend. B)

Veritas Aequitas...

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11 Dec 2019 09:24 #347121 by JamesSand

There are plenty of references to the sentience of the force. How many times is the term "will of the force" used in the Star Wars drama? suggesting not only an awareness but also an agenda or purpose in "mind".


Where do you get the ideas of "pleasing" or being "tested" by anything? Neither were suggested, even through implication.

As to it delivering nothing, I beg to differ but can agree to disagree.

And to point 2 of your epiphany...we live in a house of mirrors my friend.


I daresay it's a misunderstanding to think of the force's "will" as being similar to any sentient being, even if that is the word used in whatever reference you choose.
As far as I know (and i don't know much) the abrahamic faiths have to prove their allegiance to their all-power.
The force will be no different whether you sacrifice a puppy or name your firstborn after it.

Perhaps deliver was the wrong word, the force is everything, it does not choose to gift or withhold particular components of everything.

If you're trying to be clever in telling me I am no more qualified than anyone else in contributing garbage - what do you want? a gold star for banter?

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11 Dec 2019 09:36 #347123 by Praetorian
My reference to Judaism is mainly Kabbalistic. All the mentioned faiths have very common ground in their mystical aspects. Judaism is no exception.

As to the sacrificing business, I am not proposing any such thing, nor does the Kabbalah.

I am not suggesting the Forces sentience is like anything we can know.

Perhaps there are certain sacrifices we can make that allow us to be better aligned with the Force. Isn't that the point of training?

Thanks for your input. Have a great day.

Veritas Aequitas...

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11 Dec 2019 09:46 #347125 by JamesSand
I'll have to take your word for it on the judaism,

I wasn't really promoting sacrifice, I was trying to say you can't annoy the force, not even with punting a puppy into a turbofan.

But, for another angle of the word sacrifice, I suppose you might be right - imagine what you could sacrifice of yourself to be better?

What would you be willing to give up?

I hope the answer is time, because anything else seems more like trying to make a deal than a sacrifice.

Sacrifice your life in service to the force, and die never knowing if it made a difference.

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11 Dec 2019 14:38 #347130 by ZealotX

Praetorian wrote: In my travels it has occurred to me that the Force of the Jedi has strong parallels with the most universal notions of God. There are four key concepts which underlie the basic understandings of God (in the most supreme sense). these are usually known as the 4 tenets of God. They are; Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnibenevolence and thereby Omnipotence. It is interesting is it not that the definitions of the Force fit quite tightly with this perspective? Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Jainism, and practically every indigenous culture all have universally developed practically the same set of root assumptions about the most rudimental nature of the Source of All That Which Is.

Any thoughts/ideas?:)


I agree with you and I think its one of the reasons why we have many Jedi that combine Jediism with other faiths.

Omnipresence is simply the most obvious. It doesn't take any decoding. The Force isn't contained within one place. It is everywhere.

Omniscience is less obvious and may require some to think outside the box. The Force is not "a" person, but it is expressed in ALL people; and ALL life... everywhere. So the combined experiences of all life constitutes the knowledge of the Force.

Omnibenevolence is also less obvious and a point that we can all debate with each other. However, we shouldn't forget that the biblical God is thought to be good even though he claims to create good as well as calamities. In other words, he both creates and destroys. Destruction can also be seen as a function of creation and could therefore indirectly be an act of benevolence. If this is a stretch, we can also consider how the universe is made from matter vs antimatter and how the balance was simply tipped in the favor of the former. On a whole I believe the Force is the big bang and energy released from it, and though it is both positive and negative, the result of the equation isn't zero or below. That's at the macro level. You can take this same logic down to the micro level of individual human experiences. Even bad relationships can work out for the greater good in the end, making room for something better to come along. But we have to be fluid and not get stuck in the past so much that we cannot let go; or... in more Jedi terminology... be mindful of attachments.

Omnipotence is more obvious to me because the Force IS power. All material things are are energy in different forms. So if we're talking about all-power, this could only apply to everything that has power. Only the Force has all power because it is everything and everything is energy and all energy is the Force.

The fact that we, as expressions of the Force, can disagree with what the Force is, is a truly remarkable testament to the Force's detachment to ego.
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11 Dec 2019 14:43 - 11 Dec 2019 14:44 #347131 by steamboat28
The Force may be omnipresent, but that is because it is all things.

There Force is not omniscient, for it is the total knowledge of all things, not all knowing in itself.

The Force is not omnipotent, else Jedi would rarely die in combat.

The Force is not omnibenevolent, or there would be no way to utilize it in Dark ways.

The Force has no will except a poetic one.

The Force is not, in my estimation, a deity. The Force is a tool by which they choose to work.
Last edit: 11 Dec 2019 14:44 by steamboat28.
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11 Dec 2019 20:03 #347148 by Omhu Cuspor

Praetorian wrote: In my travels it has occurred to me that the Force of the Jedi has strong parallels with the most universal notions of God. There are four key concepts which underlie the basic understandings of God (in the most supreme sense). these are usually known as the 4 tenets of God. They are; Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnibenevolence and thereby Omnipotence. It is interesting is it not that the definitions of the Force fit quite tightly with this perspective? Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Jainism, and practically every indigenous culture all have universally developed practically the same set of root assumptions about the most rudimental nature of the Source of All That Which Is.

Any thoughts/ideas?:)


To my eyes there is truth in this speculation, though also I see a difference between some views of God and the way we understand the Force.

One way of dividing the world's major religions into two categories is classifying them by how they conceptualize God. Some view God as a creator of the universe, aware of but transcending His/Her/Its creation. In this view, God, though involved with the created universe, exists outside of it, and exists independently of it. Most sects of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam hold this view.

The second category of religions consists of those seeing God as actually expressed through the universe ... a God whose body is the universe itself. Some such religions believe such a God has forgotten itself (at least in some of its partitions), and its quest is to work its way through physicality to return to the bliss of self-awareness. Others believe that sentient experience is God learning about itself, on an infinite path to understand and experience ever more of what can be. But all of these share the perception that the manifest universe and God are one. We'd find Hinduism, other deist religions of the East, and perhaps some animist religions in this category.

I think the Force most clearly aligns with the second viewpoint. Its early description in the Star Wars saga asserts that it surrounds us and flows through us, and is an energy inherent in all living things; the myths do not describe a Force that exists outside of what we can observe.

However, they do not negate that possibility either. Perhaps, as mystic Jew and Kabbalist Joseph Greenstein once concluded when trying to determine if our lives were governed by free will or predestined, both are the case, and the apparent contradiction is a mystery which our logical minds are not able to comprehend.
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11 Dec 2019 23:27 #347160 by Eleven
I have believe that’s The Force is Everything and everything is The Force. We are all connected to an ever expanding web of connection. Ever growing and never ceasing nobody is ever truly gone. The wind blows but where does it give birth and where is it going? Can you really explain the wind without data, Webster’s dictionary, a scientist with his own theories and beliefs? My answer is no.

Is The Force God? Not in the sense of modern religion describes God in my own opinion. I don’t think The Force needs your tithes, your worship or a building, or even a Bible with writings of holy man discerning in the year blah blah 1:3... and I don’t mean that rudely. But, simply put The Force is The Force whether being good or perceived evil. Giving life or taking it. It’s action and Very nature is within us and around us. I could very well dive deeper but it would be off subject. But these are my thoughts.
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