Semantics of Virtue, Credit of Creeds

More
26 Feb 2014 03:40 #139631 by J. K. Barger
Hi there all. This may have been already clarified, but I was curious about certain word choices that we have adopted. I don't want to be "that guy" who nit-picks, but I think this might have some far-reaching implications..

When discussing the Code and the Creed, I have never came across an expression of the Creed like it is presented here (which I do enjoy it ;) ) But in other places, the "Creed" used is usually the one created by Luke Skywalker or inspired directly from it. That said, I have always seen the two as synonymous- with the 'mantra' form as the simplest, the Anderson stanzas as a further elaboration, and the Skywalker version as their most recent expansion. It is possible to correlate the five-lined Code with the Five-lined Creed, and that would make for an awesome topic on its own.

So coming from this background, I get confused on two points- the first is if the words "Code" and "Creed" are interchangeable, and even if they are or aren't, don't they both espouse certain points that are most worthy of a Jedi's contemplation?

And on that tangent, these points that are espoused- aren't they like virtues or tenets that we admonish? And if so, what is the difference between a tenet and a virtue? Do they refer to different levels of applicability, or was it simply a case of personal word-choice?

If neither, then how specifically does a Code, a Creed, and list of Maxims and Beliefs help hone one's training? By having an expanded list of desirable qualia, does this open up room for redundancy?

Like I said, I don't want to be that guy". I just want to have the clearest picture so that it all fits contextually on my plate before I try to share with someone else. So if there was dialogue about this before, just shoot me a link and a gentle PM :laugh:

MTFBWY
Jacob

The Force is with you, always.
The following user(s) said Thank You: steamboat28

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
26 Feb 2014 05:22 #139641 by Br. John
They are parable, poetry and koan. The closer you bind them the farther they scatter; the tighter you grasp them the faster they shatter.

Founder of The Order
The following user(s) said Thank You: Alexandre Orion, J. K. Barger

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
26 Feb 2014 06:15 #139644 by Adder
For me, as a rather Vedic/Buddhist type of Jedi, they all work together to shape contemplation and insight... in particular the Creed interfaces externally to the world, and the Code internally to my own energy.

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
The following user(s) said Thank You: Alexandre Orion, J. K. Barger

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Akkarin
  • Akkarin's Avatar
  • Guest
26 Feb 2014 12:24 - 26 Feb 2014 14:35 #139653 by Akkarin
Replied by Akkarin on topic Semantics of Virtue, Credit of Creeds

J. K. Barger wrote: in other places, the "Creed" used is usually the one created by Luke Skywalker or inspired directly from it. That said, I have always seen the two as synonymous- with the 'mantra' form as the simplest, the Anderson stanzas as a further elaboration, and the Skywalker version as their most recent expansion. It is possible to correlate the five-lined Code with the Five-lined Creed, and that would make for an awesome topic on its own.


Which other places? These ones: www.creeds.net/ or do you mean other Jedi sites? If you are familiar with other Jedi sites then you'll know that we don't particularly conform to a lot of their methods. ;)

J. K. Barger wrote: So coming from this background, I get confused on two points- the first is if the words "Code" and "Creed" are interchangeable, and even if they are or aren't, don't they both espouse certain points that are most worthy of a Jedi's contemplation?

And on that tangent, these points that are espoused- aren't they like virtues or tenets that we admonish?


Each part of the doctrine relates to each other part, that would be an awesome topic no?

J. K. Barger wrote: If neither, then how specifically does a Code, a Creed, and list of Maxims and Beliefs help hone one's training? By having an expanded list of desirable qualia, does this open up room for redundancy?


What is 'training'? Physical fitness? Martial arts? What about patience and compassion? Training is mental as much as physical - perhaps moreso...
Last edit: 26 Feb 2014 14:35 by Akkarin.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
26 Feb 2014 13:27 - 26 Feb 2014 13:28 #139657 by steamboat28
I don't want to be "that guy" either (that's a lie; I'm always "that guy"), but the word "creed" comes from credo, Latin for "I believe." Therefore, a creed should be a statement of the tenets of a belief structure (as separate from the Tenets listed, because TotJO Jediism has more lists than any other faith I'm intimately familiar with).
Last edit: 26 Feb 2014 13:28 by steamboat28.
The following user(s) said Thank You: J. K. Barger

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Alan
  • Alan's Avatar
  • Guest
26 Feb 2014 14:39 #139664 by Alan
Replied by Alan on topic Semantics of Virtue, Credit of Creeds
The tab on our homepage entitled Doctrine begins with a statement regarding the origins and meaning of the religion, Jediism. Following this opening are interrelated statements expressed as beliefs, tenets, codes, creed, teachings and maxims. The beliefs express an ethical philosophy that applies to all the various and diverse parts of life; a list of Jedi values. Tenets are methods for realizing the beliefs in our daily lives, that is, the tenets are the basis for how Jedi live their beliefs. Two variations on a code express a realistic appreciation of the world as it is and how a Jedi embodies both the path and the destination. Since a creed is a statement of personal belief there is an implied but not expressed opening statement, “I believe…”, and so, all that follows is what that professing Jedi believes. Teachings and Maxims detail Jedi orthopraxy (correct practice) regarding how the beliefs, tenets, code and creed are actualized in the daily life of the Jedi.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
26 Feb 2014 15:01 #139666 by J. K. Barger
There we go. I think Alan hit it on the head. Thanks guys. :lol:

The Force is with you, always.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
26 Feb 2014 16:51 #139677 by ren
Beliefs and creed are totjo-specific, they both come from non-jedi sources. beliefs differ quite a bit from the original, but creed not so much. Other jedi communities usually call the Star Wars skywalker code "creed".
The jedi code comes from star wars games.
The teachings were originally written by Jedi Sanctuary, a defunct church. (and I think they had 18 :P )
And the maxims , although the meanings have been completely rewritten, were the very origins of Jediism.

not sure where the tenets are from.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
The following user(s) said Thank You: J. K. Barger

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
26 Feb 2014 17:10 #139678 by Wescli Wardest

J. K. Barger wrote: When discussing the Code and the Creed, I have never came across an expression of the Creed like it is presented here (which I do enjoy it ;) ) But in other places, the "Creed" used is usually the one created by Luke Skywalker or inspired directly from it. That said, I have always seen the two as synonymous- with the 'mantra' form as the simplest, the Anderson stanzas as a further elaboration, and the Skywalker version as their most recent expansion. It is possible to correlate the five-lined Code with the Five-lined Creed, and that would make for an awesome topic on its own.


People will addopt what makes the most sense for them. ;)

So coming from this background, I get confused on two points- the first is if the words "Code" and "Creed" are interchangeable, and even if they are or aren't, don't they both espouse certain points that are most worthy of a Jedi's contemplation?


A Creed , confession, symbol, or statement of faith is a statement of the shared beliefs of a religious community. Creeds are not intended to be comprehensive, but to be a summary of core beliefs. The term "creed" can also refer to a person's political or social beliefs, or is sometimes used to mean religious affiliation

A Code is a type of legislation that purports to exhaustively cover a complete system of laws or a particular area of law as it existed at the time the code was enacted, by a process of codification.

Codes can be ethical, social, moral or legislative and in part define the governance of ideals.

Does this help clarify any? :D (There really needs to be a big, cheesy grin emoticon!)

Monastic Order of Knights
The following user(s) said Thank You: J. K. Barger

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
10 Apr 2014 17:27 #144028 by J. K. Barger
It does Bro. Wardest, thank you. While words aren't something to get hung up on, they do have certain textures to them that feel differently to people. I just wanted to make sure I was "feelin' it", if you can feel me :woohoo:

The Force is with you, always.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Wescli Wardest

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Moderators: RexZero