Why I am not a Millionaire (link)

Im sure ill have plenty of tales for my wife and son from prison, or the psyche ward. :lol:

Alethea Thompson wrote: Fortune cookie statements are a crutch.

Is that on fortune cookies now? I think you're missing the point. Money is just an idea. Fiat money, like any check or note of debt, is without intrinsic use value as a physical commodity. It derives its value by being declared by a government to be legal tender; that is, it must be accepted as a form of payment within the boundaries of the country, for "all debts, public and private".

Why do you need a million pieces of paper to tour the world and educate people? People have been doing that for thousands of years without money. Why do you need pieces of paper to feed and clothe and shelter yourself? People have been doing that for 200,000+ years without money.

Adder wrote: I'd love to agree with him because a lot of what he says are good messages, but I've met a few wealthy people, and they do not care that much about money. When they have enough, they can lose some of it - because they know they have enough to make it back easily enough.... you see money makes money. They don't waste it of course, but they don't actually give it much thought.

What he says though is true for most everyone else on the planet. It's just strange that he makes it all about himself. I'd calculate that there are a few thresholds for wealth to achieve freedom;

1. earning enough to survive (meet basic demands of water,food,shelter)
2. earning enough to support a few dependents (elderly, children, sick)
3. assets enough to support yourself in old age when you retire (but you stll need to work)
4. assets enough to support yourself now, so you do not have to work except managing your assets
5. assets enough to remove oneself from management of supporting yourself now, so you do not have to work at all.

There would be intermediate levels of course. I'd have to say he is at or above level 3 but decides to spend it all altruistically perhaps!?

If that guy does not have a financial safety net and the story is literally true (which I doubt), then he might be assuming that he will be able to generate money when he needs it. If he gets injured/sick and unable to work or be creative/entrepreneurial, it would have helped to have some savings or income producing assets.

Which is probably his point, if everyone gives everything to those charities then when the time comes for them to need them, they will be of suitable quality and professionalism to be what he considers 'best'.

I still think lifestyle and assets are different things though. Someone could be a billionaire and live very ascetic or nature-bound in the Himalayas with black clad ninja's. The only difference is that person will always know that all it takes is one phone call before boarding the companies/trusts G5 to return to Gotham.

While I'm not convinced you need absolute renunciation to achieve the spiritual benefits of asceticism, there can be no doubt that one difference is a huge one.

Well if money makes money then these people don't actually "earn" it. Financial freedom is a myth for about 99% of the world so why even bother chasing a myth? You'll just end up working a job you hate, getting a degree you don't really want, living in a crappy apartment in a crappy city surrounded by money-worshipping consumers.

Whyte, if fiat money means nothing- why aren't you living the fiat moneyless dream. Why are t you out there teaching the world your message without fiat money? Or living without -any- of the luxuries I am barely able to hold right now (house, food, shelter, transportation , etc)? If that's something you aspire to- why are you on the Internet which costs someone(whether its yours, someone else's or a company's) fiat money to communicate. If you are t living the dream- it's nothing but a fortune cookie statement.

Whyte Horse wrote: Well if money makes money then these people don't actually "earn" it.

What I meant by the idea of money making money is that it creates freedom to use it effectively in a market economy, as compared to someone who has to use money as required when required because they have insufficient in surplus and therefore do not have the luxury of taking advantage of the movements in the market. That sort of thing still takes work and involves risk, so they'd say they earn it probably.

Alethea Thompson wrote: Whyte, if fiat money means nothing- why aren't you living the fiat moneyless dream. Why are t you out there teaching the world your message without fiat money? Or living without -any- of the luxuries I am barely able to hold right now (house, food, shelter, transportation , etc)? If that's something you aspire to- why are you on the Internet which costs someone(whether its yours, someone else's or a company's) fiat money to communicate. If you are t living the dream- it's nothing but a fortune cookie statement.

Who says I'm not living the moneyless dream? I've already traveled the world and taught plus I'll be doing it again soon. Internet access doesn't HAVE to cost money, you just choose to have your own personal dedicated high-speed line to your bank-owned suburban McMansion. In case you didn't notice, food just grows on trees and comes out of the backends of chickens. Water falls from the skies.

But fear not, I used to have the same problems you're referring to. I wasted 13 years of my life working at jobs I hated and buying things I don't need to impress people I don't like. The final straw was when I found myself working in a cubicle, eating garbage, paying "rent" to live on the planet I was born on, and playing a rat-race game just like everyone else but never getting ahead, only just barely treading water. Well haha the joke was on me and I learned my lesson.

I personally think the guy who wrote the article is a genius, or at least he sees the genius in this way of life. People like he and I still do work and probably work harder than we need to but it's not for money.

Peace

Yeah, I know alot of people with your attitude.

Funnily enough though, MY hard work, not only has to pay for me and my family, but many of there welfare checks,project 8 housing,etc, and there family too.


As with Gandhi, it takes alot of my money for many people to live so simply.

Interesting how they can be on foodstamps and government checks and yet have no problem getting high speed internet either.

Khaos beat me to it.

"it took an awful lot of money to keep Bapu poor."
-Sarojini Naidu (A follower of Gandhi speaking of Gandhi's "poverty")

Not to mention the bit of my money that goes to prisons, etc.. They live simply too. Get work out equipment, TV time, etc... Good to see where your hard earned money goes.

Khaos wrote: Yeah, I know alot of people with your attitude.

Funnily enough though, MY hard work, not only has to pay for me and my family, but many of there welfare checks,project 8 housing,etc, and there family too.


As with Gandhi, it takes alot of my money for many people to live so simply.

Interesting how they can be on foodstamps and government checks and yet have no problem getting high speed internet either.

Hey man I worked a jobbie and paid taxes too ever since I was 13. It takes a lot of my money(which I actually earned through real work, not some fake work like rich people do) to keep those at the top afloat. $800/month rent to a landlord? Go get bent. 35% interest on credit cards? Stuff a sock in it.

Well all I can say is that may work out for some people but so did slavery.

You know, money and wealth are topics that people seem to have an all or nothing opinion of, and I really dont get it.

Either you are living in a shack in the woods living off the land and mooching internet off other people, or youre living in a "McMansion" franctically buying and consuming which you pay for by being chained to a desk in an airless windowless corporate prison, basing your enitre identity on material goods playing right into the hands of "THEM". eeeem... what if you do neither?

What happened to balance? Why does it have to be one or the other?

I dont live in a McMansion (nor would I. I dont have a love of house work as it is!!) but I happen to be pretty fond of my tumble dryer and not slaughtering my own food. I chose to have my own internet access because its a lot easier that it was having to go to the library to use theirs every day, which I did for over a year while going through my "Damn the system". And you know what, I chose to embrace some of the things that require money. I enjoy them, I prefer to have them than not. They are provided to me through the work of others, so yes, I must compensate them in some way for their efforts and resources.

We are not "slaves to a system". We can leave the system if we genuinely want to, but most of us chose the convenience and ease over the alternatives. Its about balance. I happen to have a job that I love, a not-crappy apartment that im very happy in, in a city that I quite like surrounded by "money worshiping consumers". And it doesnt bother me. I dont "chase money" or obsess over it, but I chose to have the things that it can get me.

Brenna wrote: You know, money and wealth are topics that people seem to have an all or nothing opinion of, and I really dont get it.

Either you are living in a shack in the woods living off the land and mooching internet off other people, or youre living in a "McMansion" franctically buying and consuming which you pay for by being chained to a desk in an airless windowless corporate prison, basing your enitre identity on material goods playing right into the hands of "THEM". eeeem... what if you do neither?

What happened to balance? Why does it have to be one or the other?

I dont live in a McMansion (nor would I. I dont have a love of house work as it is!!) but I happen to be pretty fond of my tumble dryer and not slaughtering my own food. I chose to have my own internet access because its a lot easier that it was having to go to the library to use theirs every day, which I did for over a year while going through my "Damn the system". And you know what, I chose to embrace some of the things that require money. I enjoy them, I prefer to have them than not. They are provided to me through the work of others, so yes, I must compensate them in some way for their efforts and resources.

We are not "slaves to a system". We can leave the system if we genuinely want to, but most of us chose the convenience and ease over the alternatives. Its about balance. I happen to have a job that I love, a not-crappy apartment that im very happy in, in a city that I quite like surrounded by "money worshiping consumers". And it doesnt bother me. I dont "chase money" or obsess over it, but I chose to have the things that it can get me.

Well Brenna some countries still haven't succombed to unfettered capitalism yet. I knew a guy from Denmark and man the stories he would tell... it sounded like paradise! Free education, job security, human rights, health care, etc. Another guy from Canada... Another guy from NZ... They all had these wonderful stories like yours. I mean I can't even imagine what it's like to live in a country where you can get health care. I haven't even looked at a dentist in 20 years.

Maybe the US people see everything as "shack in the woods" vs "McMansion in Beverly Hills" because that's how things really are in the US right now. The majority of people are either obscenely wealthy or obscenely poor. And the people who slightly above poverty are offended when they hear that poor people have internet or that prisoners get food and TV.

Whyte Horse wrote: Well Brenna some countries still haven't succombed to unfettered capitalism yet. I knew a guy from Denmark and man the stories he would tell... it sounded like paradise! Free education, job security, human rights, health care, etc. Another guy from Canada... Another guy from NZ... They all had these wonderful stories like yours. I mean I can't even imagine what it's like to live in a country where you can get health care. I haven't even looked at a dentist in 20 years.

Maybe the US people see everything as "shack in the woods" vs "McMansion in Beverly Hills" because that's how things really are in the US right now. The majority of people are either obscenely wealthy or obscenely poor. And the people who slightly above poverty are offended when they hear that poor people have internet or that prisoners get food and TV.

I would like to point out here that I lived in Southern Africa for 20 years where there is no socialised anything. No free education. No healthcare. The only difference is there we had to pay for insurance so things had to be reprioritised. And my opinion remains the same.

Id like to also point out that New Zealand isnt exactly nirvana. Our personal income tax rate is high, our goods and sales tax is stupidly high. Tax on gas sits at almost 40% of the cost. Every time you turn around youre being taxed for something, I get taxed annually for owning a dog! A chihuahua! But it is well managed and pays for the things it should. Land is horrifically expensive (teeeny island) which means that the rent on my tiny apartment is in a week what the average 4 bedroom McMansion in the States costs in a month.

Only emergency and public hospital care is free (though you are expected to pay a percentage of your care). Its still costs me $70 to go to my GP. Although most "essential" medications are heavily subsidised so it helps. No dental if youre over 18 sadly. and dental is extremely expensive here.

Education is free for children whose families are on low incomes, above a certain threshold, you pay. Or "donate" as they like to say. Tertiary education is not free either and is one of the priciest in the world (mainly because its designed to fleece wealthy asian students)

Job security? We still have to work hard to stay employed. Its not like you can sit around with a bad attitude and a poor work ethic. And you may want to do some research on the state of our manufacturing industry and our various utilitys companies. There have been regular protests and strikes because of downsizing and retretchments. Our economy has been somewhat shaken lately too.

Prisoners here have better medical care and a higher standard of living than the majority of pensioners.

My point is that there is no perfect paradise. Mine is not a "wonderful story". I work hard, I pay taxes like anyone else. Yes I buy stuff but I prioritise and my perspective on my life and circumstances is not one of "Im trapped by a system". I am certainly in the system, but that is my choice.


Edit- and even though we do live in a wonderful country with it's many benefits, people still complain that they are trapped by the system which stops them from getting ahead.

I know there is no perfect place. I'm frequently reminded of that when Americans say "Well man if u don't like it here u can go to China". But you expect a certain level of human decency when you live in the wealthiest country ever in the history of the world... but it's really quite the opposite.

Anyway enough complaining about the US. It is what it is and it ain't what it ain't. To take yourself out of the system is the first step towards objectivity.

, I get taxed annually for owning a dog!

What's the justification for that? Is it more than just a dog license?

I get taxed annually for owning a dog!

What's the justification for that? Is it more than just a dog license?

I'm sure it is because the dog (no matter how small) takes up space. It is a small island after all.

And the people who slightly above poverty are offended when they hear that poor people have internet or that prisoners get food and TV.

Yes, I get offended when a woman with 15 kids refuses to get a job and demands more from the government. Certainly, the arguement can be made that she cant get a job with 15 kids, but birth control is readily available in the US in a variety of ways.

Yes, I am offended that prisoners will get taken care of medically better than I can provide for my wife and child. Because I am in fact above poverty level, so the cost insurance, healthcare, etc goes up.

Yes, I am offended when someone lives on there internet knowing that there food, housing, etc is all taken care of.

Being able to offended is important.

Why would you want to change something/see something change if it didnt bother you?

Lots of stuff bothers me, and I wouldnt pretend otherwise.

However I am not addicted to money, or things that money gets me, but I do enjoy both. I also enjoy my job, well most times, sometimes I dont. But work isnt always supposed to be enjoyable.

I also dont turn a blind eye to the facts though, and the fact is, in America, people confuse living simply by being a parasite off of everyone else and thats not the same thing at all.

If your living simply at someone elses expense, then the importance of money has not changed. Someone else is just footing the bill for your lazy ass.

Khaos wrote:

And the people who slightly above poverty are offended when they hear that poor people have internet or that prisoners get food and TV.

Yes, I get offended when a woman with 15 kids refuses to get a job and demands more from the government.

.

You're offended by a scenario that you invented.

Donkey wrote:

Khaos wrote:

And the people who slightly above poverty are offended when they hear that poor people have internet or that prisoners get food and TV.

Yes, I get offended when a woman with 15 kids refuses to get a job and demands more from the government.

.

You're offended by a scenario that you invented.

There was a guy in my area who had over 30 children, and is asking for a break in child support.

I have lived slightly below and slightly above the poverty line. I am not nor do I get upset about my financial problems. I use my money to buy exactly what I need, and I use whatever left to aid my community. There is no point in being offended, you can't bring money with you when you die. All that matters is that you are able to live and survive, to hell with what someone else wants. Being envious of others blinds you from what you have. Be happy for what you got, and live your life as best you can.