TotJO Logo Design

Jestor wrote: I can see the 5 star....

I can see the 16 star

Now, without the circle, show me the interdependence of dark and light...

I say the circle is important, and belongs...

1. If this white logo is placed on a black background, there's your interdependence of dark and light.
2. If you change the logo (i.e., the two stars) to black, and put it on a white letterhead, there's your interdependence of dark and light.
3. If you have a dark red header bar on the website, and the logo is white, there's your interdependence of dark and light.
4. If I paint the logo in yellow on a green car, there's my interdependence of "dark" and "light".

None of those inherently require the circle. The circle just makes it look prettier if you want to put a white star on a white background. It's damn pretty, and my preferred method of displaying the logo, but it's not needed to fulfill the requirements of the "meaning."

**EDIT** - I'm not sure how long the editing window on posts is, but if you give me a little time to finish the IP lesson I'm working on first, I'll give visual samples of each of these (and more) examples I've given above.

Here's the original (Example 1):


Here's the inverted color scheme without the circle (Example 2):


Here's one that approximates the header (with a more vibrant red) (Example 3):


Here's the green-and-yellow car design (Example 4):


And here are three based on my school colors--

Elementary School:

High School:

and College:


As long as the contrast between the logo and the background is kept, the interplay of light and dark is still seen in the negative space of the design, and doesn't need to be explicitly stated with a circle. It is not wrong to display the logo in the circle, it just isn't necessary all the time.

The body of the background is not the TOTJO symbol...

Using your green/yellow example, the green car is not a part of the symbol....

Yet, now the whole thing is, and it becomes washed out...

Do as you like, I appreciate the art, but, unless Br. John corrects me, or I find evidence in the archives, I'm telling you the circle is important, as it separates the entire symbol from the background...

The balance is gone... There is more green than yellow....

The percentages of dark to light may not be 50/50, but its nowhere close with the circle gone...

Jestor wrote: The body of the background is not the TOTJO symbol...

Using your green/yellow example, the green car is not a part of the symbol....

That's exactly what I'm saying, actually. The interplay of dark and light, from a graphics and artistic perception, is about the interplay of positive and negative space (which, honestly, i think makes a more profound philosophical statement, personally) and less about the actual colors, I think.

Also, if you said the circle was necessary. then questions will arise about whether or not it has a border, and how thick the border is, and/or you're stuck with that color combination (black/white), which means that the lovely art 666 did that we enjoy (the black/gold) is good, but it's not the logo.

Furthermore, I love the circle for aesthetic purposes (and vastly prefer to use it), but I object to it as a philosophical representation. In religious/spiritual/esoteric/etc. symbolism (and symbology, though the two are different), circles are seen as limiters. Circles are typically seen as spiritual boundaries, dividing what's inside them from what's outside them. This could take many forms--in our case, it could be misinterpreted to be limiting the power of the Force, set boundaries on an infinite universe, project an "us v. them" ideology to non-members rather than our actual inclusive nature--and I don't think any of those are really representative of Jediism.

that said, these are just my opinions.

And, that is my point...

The circle separates the symbol, from the car...

And correct, I've never considered the black/gold as the symbol...

It is just an artistic interpretation...

One I happen to like...

Also, just my opinion....

The circle is part of the symbol.

Br. John wrote: The circle is part of the symbol.

Sweet, an official answer! I do have a few questions about this, though:

• Can we continue to use it without the circle in unofficial formats, such as the header bar?
• What do we do when the black circle goes on a dark background?
  • Do we invert the colors?
    • If so, is it still the same symbol?
    • If not, must we still draw the circle?
  • Do we give it a border?
    • If so, does the border become part of the logo?
    • How thick should the border be in relation to the rest of the circle?
  • Do we ignore it, or assume it's there, even if we can't see it?
• How do we handle it if it's monochrome? (true monochrome, only one color, not contrasting, like, if we were embossing it, or making paper cutouts, or what-have-you) Do we circle back to the border questions?

I'm all for the official verdict on this, but it does raise some other interesting design questions, in my opinion.