Taoism: Is it what I think?

  • Alan
  • Alan's Avatar
  • Guest
29 Sep 2013 13:52 #119993 by Alan
Replied by Alan on topic Taoism: Is it what I think?
Kristofer Schipper argues in The Taoist Body for the inseparability of Daoist beliefs from traditional practices and everyday activities in China. While traditional, historical, and cultural Chinese Daoism is academically interesting, my own form of Daoism/Jediism focuses more on living its philosophical insights than in a lifestyle that practices or re-enacts Chinese myth in ritual activities. Even so, Daoism is a way of being in the world. Its philosophical tenets are to be lived, but for me that doesn't include Chinese ritual practices. To read more about what the West has done with and to Daoism, I recommend The Tao of the West: Western Transformations of Taoist Thought by J. J. Clarke.

In addition to Schipper and Clarke I recommend also these scholars/translators:

Livia Kohn
Harold D. Roth
Thomas Cleary
Burton Watson
Hans-Georg Moeller

See also the publications from The University of Hawai'i Press and Shambhala Press, Boston.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Mark Anjuu
  • Mark Anjuu's Avatar
  • Guest
30 Sep 2013 10:11 #120071 by Mark Anjuu
Replied by Mark Anjuu on topic Taoism: Is it what I think?
It seems that most intuitive practices that last long enough are doomed to become ritualised. This was certainly the case with Taoism as ritual took over as a way of connecting. There is a clear distinction between Classical Taoism and later, more ritualised, forms. I suspect that many of us here practice as you do, focusing on the earlier incarnations of Taoism.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

30 Sep 2013 11:01 #120072 by Alexandre Orion
As it were, I don't focus on anything --

-- it is of the most spontaneous expression.

Be a philosopher ; but, amidst all your philosophy, be still a man.
~ David Hume

Chaque homme a des devoirs envers l'homme en tant qu'homme.
~ Henri Bergson
File Attachment:
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lykeios Little Raven

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Xiam
  • Xiam's Avatar
  • Guest
29 Nov 2016 21:11 #266655 by Xiam
Replied by Xiam on topic Taoism: Is it what I think?

Whyte Horse wrote: I think Tao is like saying there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. There's like these paths, and you walk them. Sometimes you know it and sometimes you don't. The Tao kinda helps you know the path. Here's a few paths for example:
1. Right View

Right view is the beginning and the end of the path, it simply means to see and to understand things as they really are and to realise the Four Noble Truth. As such, right view is the cognitive aspect of wisdom. It means to see things through, to grasp the impermanent and imperfect nature of worldly objects and ideas, and to understand the law of karma and karmic conditioning. Right view is not necessarily an intellectual capacity, just as wisdom is not just a matter of intelligence. Instead, right view is attained, sustained, and enhanced through all capacities of mind. It begins with the intuitive insight that all beings are subject to suffering and it ends with complete understanding of the true nature of all things. Since our view of the world forms our thoughts and our actions, right view yields right thoughts and right actions.

2. Right Intention

While right view refers to the cognitive aspect of wisdom, right intention refers to the volitional aspect, i.e. the kind of mental energy that controls our actions. Right intention can be described best as commitment to ethical and mental self-improvement. Buddha distinguishes three types of right intentions: 1. the intention of renunciation, which means resistance to the pull of desire, 2. the intention of good will, meaning resistance to feelings of anger and aversion, and 3. the intention of harmlessness, meaning not to think or act cruelly, violently, or aggressively, and to develop compassion.

3. Right Speech

Right speech is the first principle of ethical conduct in the eightfold path. Ethical conduct is viewed as a guideline to moral discipline, which supports the other principles of the path. This aspect is not self-sufficient, however, essential, because mental purification can only be achieved through the cultivation of ethical conduct. The importance of speech in the context of Buddhist ethics is obvious: words can break or save lives, make enemies or friends, start war or create peace. Buddha explained right speech as follows: 1. to abstain from false speech, especially not to tell deliberate lies and not to speak deceitfully, 2. to abstain from slanderous speech and not to use words maliciously against others, 3. to abstain from harsh words that offend or hurt others, and 4. to abstain from idle chatter that lacks purpose or depth. Positively phrased, this means to tell the truth, to speak friendly, warm, and gently and to talk only when necessary.

4. Right Action

The second ethical principle, right action, involves the body as natural means of expression, as it refers to deeds that involve bodily actions. Unwholesome actions lead to unsound states of mind, while wholesome actions lead to sound states of mind. Again, the principle is explained in terms of abstinence: right action means 1. to abstain from harming sentient beings, especially to abstain from taking life (including suicide) and doing harm intentionally or delinquently, 2. to abstain from taking what is not given, which includes stealing, robbery, fraud, deceitfulness, and dishonesty, and 3. to abstain from sexual misconduct. Positively formulated, right action means to act kindly and compassionately, to be honest, to respect the belongings of others, and to keep sexual relationships harmless to others. Further details regarding the concrete meaning of right action can be found in the Precepts.

5. Right Livelihood

Right livelihood means that one should earn one's living in a righteous way and that wealth should be gained legally and peacefully. The Buddha mentions four specific activities that harm other beings and that one should avoid for this reason: 1. dealing in weapons, 2. dealing in living beings (including raising animals for slaughter as well as slave trade and prostitution), 3. working in meat production and butchery, and 4. selling intoxicants and poisons, such as alcohol and drugs. Furthermore any other occupation that would violate the principles of right speech and right action should be avoided.

6. Right Effort

Right effort can be seen as a prerequisite for the other principles of the path. Without effort, which is in itself an act of will, nothing can be achieved, whereas misguided effort distracts the mind from its task, and confusion will be the consequence. Mental energy is the force behind right effort; it can occur in either wholesome or unwholesome states. The same type of energy that fuels desire, envy, aggression, and violence can on the other side fuel self-discipline, honesty, benevolence, and kindness. Right effort is detailed in four types of endeavours that rank in ascending order of perfection: 1. to prevent the arising of unarisen unwholesome states, 2. to abandon unwholesome states that have already arisen, 3. to arouse wholesome states that have not yet arisen, and 4. to maintain and perfect wholesome states already arisen.

7. Right Mindfulness

Right mindfulness is the controlled and perfected faculty of cognition. It is the mental ability to see things as they are, with clear consciousness. Usually, the cognitive process begins with an impression induced by perception, or by a thought, but then it does not stay with the mere impression. Instead, we almost always conceptualise sense impressions and thoughts immediately. We interpret them and set them in relation to other thoughts and experiences, which naturally go beyond the facticity of the original impression. The mind then posits concepts, joins concepts into constructs, and weaves those constructs into complex interpretative schemes. All this happens only half consciously, and as a result we often see things obscured. Right mindfulness is anchored in clear perception and it penetrates impressions without getting carried away. Right mindfulness enables us to be aware of the process of conceptualisation in a way that we actively observe and control the way our thoughts go. Buddha accounted for this as the four foundations of mindfulness: 1. contemplation of the body, 2. contemplation of feeling (repulsive, attractive, or neutral), 3. contemplation of the state of mind, and 4. contemplation of the phenomena.

8. Right Concentration

The eighth principle of the path, right concentration, refers to the development of a mental force that occurs in natural consciousness, although at a relatively low level of intensity, namely concentration. Concentration in this context is described as one-pointedness of mind, meaning a state where all mental faculties are unified and directed onto one particular object. Right concentration for the purpose of the eightfold path means wholesome concentration, i.e. concentration on wholesome thoughts and actions. The Buddhist method of choice to develop right concentration is through the practice of meditation. The meditating mind focuses on a selected object. It first directs itself onto it, then sustains concentration, and finally intensifies concentration step by step. Through this practice it becomes natural to apply elevated levels concentration also in everyday situations.

Still new to some of this, but uh... while I'm sure practitioners of Ch'an/Zen may acknowledge this to some extent, seems odd to use the eightfold path for Taoism. Seems a bit too intellectual for them, in a way. :laugh:

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao

Please Log in to join the conversation.

30 Nov 2016 00:47 - 30 Nov 2016 01:02 #266672 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Taoism: Is it what I think?

Xiam wrote: Still new to some of this, but uh... while I'm sure practitioners of Ch'an/Zen may acknowledge this to some extent, seems odd to use the eightfold path for Taoism. Seems a bit too intellectual for them, in a way. :laugh:

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao

Yea, haha, I tend to think Taoism is not about finding the path but walking the path, while Buddhism has a lot more on finding the path... to the extent Taoism on the surface almost appears as a doctrine of non-doctrine, because lets face it one can indeed sometimes make it by faking it. But I feel that would be misrepresenting the experiential essence of Taoism - something which complexity covers over, but Buddhism helps wipe away. So modern human draped in artifice, sees that these views or systems more succinctly serve the experience of living a rewarding experience, rather then constantly living in a place where articulations of desire and demand constitute truth. Then the question becomes what is that experiential essence, is it hidden, do I lack it, how might I lack it, what would it be anyway. So yea, I think Buddhism uses tools to manifest/reveal the essence, while Taoism is more specifically about living with the essence (the Tao). So I don't see too much problem using both Buddhism and Taoism together personally..

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 30 Nov 2016 01:02 by Adder.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Xiam

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Moderators: RexZero