Oath of Confidence

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02 Mar 2016 05:37 - 02 Mar 2016 21:08 #231118 by Whyte Horse

Rosalyn J wrote: Ordained Clergy please post your Oath of confidence here

Oath of Confidence: "I profess before all that I, [legal name], born the dd/mm/yyyy, shall honour the Seal of Confidence as prescribed by the Temple of the Jedi Order and its Clergy. That which I come to know, through my service to any other fellow human being, through interaction, observation or from other's account, I will not divulge to any other, in recognition that these matters are by nature Secret. I understand that should I compromise or violate this Oath, my statute as a Clergy member, regardless of grade or position, shall be forfeit."

Doh, I thought this was something else, sorry.

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Last edit: 02 Mar 2016 21:08 by Whyte Horse.

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02 Mar 2016 05:52 - 02 Mar 2016 05:53 #231120 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic Oath of Confidence

Whyte Horse wrote: wtf is is this sh!t? There are no secrets here. There is no seal of confidence except what the members agree upon. Take this back and go no further.
Peace


Yes, there is. TotJO observes the Tradition of Clergy-Congregant Confidence, which is supported by the laws by which TotJO is governed.

This is not the place for such disagreements.
Mods, please move these two posts to a new thread.
Last edit: 02 Mar 2016 05:53 by steamboat28.
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02 Mar 2016 05:55 - 02 Mar 2016 21:11 #231121 by Alexandre Orion
Replied by Alexandre Orion on topic Oath of Confidence
Whyte Horse ...

Your concerns are noted.

This Oath of Confidence is to replace the seal of "Confession", since Confession -- just the word, carried a lot of baggage that people distrust for diverse and varied reasons to diverse and varied degrees. By taking this Oath - which is for our Clergy members only, really - one is officially bound to not divulge confidences entrusted to them.

There has always been a form of this recognised confidentiality among the Clergy of the TotJO, it was just called the "seal of Confession" ... This is now re-labelled "Confidence" to reflect its more practical nature (distanced from the framework of "sin & repentance" -- which it is not).

By all means, anyone is free to discuss what they would like to about it, but the Clergy have opted to take this oath and no one else is really bound by it. We are not asking Temple Members to swear it.

This message contains confidential information

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Last edit: 02 Mar 2016 21:11 by Adder.
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02 Mar 2016 08:46 - 02 Mar 2016 08:58 #231141 by Snowy Aftermath
Replied by Snowy Aftermath on topic Oath of Confidence
With all respect, were I a clergy member (and I have been considering pursuing it) would I be able to call emergency services in a case where the confessor had just made it very plain that they had intentions to hurt themselves or someone else? Even licensed therapists and medical doctors are able to do such things. If that is part of what clergy are permitted, it seems reasonable to include that in this section of text to protect them, don't you think?

I know I have had desperate moments, thank goodness for the people who didn't keep their mouths shut! I wouldn't want those people to have to decide if their job was more important than calling for help.

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Last edit: 02 Mar 2016 08:58 by Snowy Aftermath.
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02 Mar 2016 12:31 #231151 by Proteus
Replied by Proteus on topic Oath of Confidence

Snowy Aftermath wrote: With all respect, were I a clergy member (and I have been considering pursuing it) would I be able to call emergency services in a case where the confessor had just made it very plain that they had intentions to hurt themselves or someone else? Even licensed therapists and medical doctors are able to do such things. If that is part of what clergy are permitted, it seems reasonable to include that in this section of text to protect them, don't you think?

I know I have had desperate moments, thank goodness for the people who didn't keep their mouths shut! I wouldn't want those people to have to decide if their job was more important than calling for help.


Of course. Acknowledging that we should know to do so in those kinds of matters is actually part of seminary training.

It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows me when I know that I know that I know.
- Alan Watts
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02 Mar 2016 12:39 - 02 Mar 2016 12:40 #231153 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic Oath of Confidence

Proteus wrote:

Snowy Aftermath wrote: With all respect, were I a clergy member (and I have been considering pursuing it) would I be able to call emergency services in a case where the confessor had just made it very plain that they had intentions to hurt themselves or someone else? Even licensed therapists and medical doctors are able to do such things. If that is part of what clergy are permitted, it seems reasonable to include that in this section of text to protect them, don't you think?

I know I have had desperate moments, thank goodness for the people who didn't keep their mouths shut! I wouldn't want those people to have to decide if their job was more important than calling for help.


Of course. Acknowledging that we should know to do so in those kinds of matters is actually part of seminary training.


And one of the reasons I brought to the clergy that this oath, as originally worded, didn't fit with the guidelines the clergy already agrees to follow, or the law in many places. It's being looked at so that oversight can be fixed. :)
Last edit: 02 Mar 2016 12:40 by steamboat28.

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02 Mar 2016 12:44 #231154 by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic Oath of Confidence
Hiya!

We see the error. Thank you. We are looking into it. This is not a topic for conversation, but for recording the oaths of ordained clergy as the original post states.

:D
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02 Mar 2016 14:01 - 02 Mar 2016 14:02 #231169 by Edan
Replied by Edan on topic Oath of Confidence
Mod Alert: I have split this thread to return the original to its purpose, and so that conversation can continue.

Understanding in the place of indifference
Compassion in the place of cruelty
Action in the place of apathy
Peace in the place of violence
Mercy in the place of vengeance

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Last edit: 02 Mar 2016 14:02 by Edan.
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02 Mar 2016 18:20 #231253 by Edan
Replied by Edan on topic Oath of Confidence
It seems a slight irony to me that an oath of confidence requires personal information to be shared.

Understanding in the place of indifference
Compassion in the place of cruelty
Action in the place of apathy
Peace in the place of violence
Mercy in the place of vengeance

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02 Mar 2016 18:29 - 02 Mar 2016 18:30 #231261 by Avalon
Replied by Avalon on topic Oath of Confidence
I was hoping that that would get addressed... The whole "what if this is going on" situation thing.

Like, people are legally obligated to report the potential for future crimes, especially if those crimes put others at risk.

When I was in the military, if a friend came to you in confidence and told you they had been raped or assaulted, unless you held a certain job (in the Navy, SAPR, originally known as SAVI), you were obligated to inform the command. In doing such, the victim's right to a closed investigation were automatically terminated. Why do you think so few rapes go reported in the military? (I know, completely different topic, but still...)

If they told you that they had personally committed x, y, z crime, you were obligated to inform the command. If they told you they knew that [random person] had committed x, y, z crime, you were obligated to inform the command.

If you failed to inform the command of any of the above, as mere examples, you could be found guilty of committing your own crimes. (Yes, that includes the rape scenario...)

I get that being clergy is a different situation, but even they have the obligation to report certain things, depending on where you're at.

Further.... Not every country is going to honor the current terms of that oath. Just sayin..

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Last edit: 02 Mar 2016 18:30 by Avalon.

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