Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project

Just some thoughts on this whole Temple Project: Some years ago I was involved with a new religious movement called Eckankar. They too had the plan to build a physical temple as a focus and main meeting point for their religion. They did eventually succeed in doing so and the (very impressive) temple was constructed in the 1990s. At that time however, Eckankar already had a few hundred thousand (dues paying) members as well as a multitude of regional Eck centres worldwide. Still it took almost ten years and an intensive fundraising campaign within the membership before the temple could be built, not to talk about the time it took for planning the whole project, e.g. finding a suitable and affordable piece of land (what good is a temple out somewhere in the wilderness?), architectural planning, taxes etc. And at the end, the temple cost more than was initially calculated. If you're interested, you can google "Eck Temple" and take a look at it.

What I'm trying to say here is: Sure, a temple sounds like a wonderful idea but at the moment, TOTJO has neither the necessity nor the financial backing for such a project. Calculating with a few thousand dollars is ridicolous and unrealistic. After all, there is only sense in buliding a temple if it is representative of TOTJO and that means it shouldn't just be a little wooden hut or a tent. Such things would just make us a laughing stock. Maybe if TOTJO continues to grow and Jediism in general becomes more recognised as a valid spiritual/religious movement, we can think about this again - in ten years maybe :whistle:

My initial idea was that we could continually improve it as time passes. From wood, to concrete, to the goal. The temple itself would help us achieve that. But I do see your side. But remember Ve-Lo-Zi, Jediism isn't your typical christian religion. The structure of church and admittance isn't for the bulk of society. We don't want to brain wash people with sermon after sermon, we strive to improve our selves through learning and self learning.

The whole donation thing is not a subject of willingness(for me atleast), its of understanding. I run a website. It gets pretty good number of views but probably not what TOTJO gets. I only pay $8 regardless of the number of views per year. The view speed is up to par with other websites even during periods of high usage. Even if the cost was more, I expected no financial problems since there was never any talk of it. I think there should be more education in regards to the cost of operating this website. I do agree on not being aggressive with donations tho.

Does a temple call for the unification of the jedi religion? It would be hard to do, but very good for jediism. Is it realistic?

Drexid wrote: Does a temple call for the unification of the jedi religion? It would be hard to do, but very good for jediism. Is it realistic?

I've seen people talk like this is a good idea but... it really isn't lol.

Many people here probably haven't seen the, in some cases, extreme difference between ourselves and other people. There are other Jedi who would never think of joining us, or if they did would quickly leave, because we are so utterly different to them.

And that is fine.

I'm not sure it would be good for Jediism at all. What sort of thing do we expect? That we allow these different people to join together but retain their distinct differences? That perhaps they join one big organisation called 'The Great Jedi Church' or whatever, but have separate distinct branches so we can be 'Great Jedi Church - TotJO division' etc. That would be the only way you could have all the groups agree to be together, but then why bother?

Why create a new organsation called 'The Great Jedi Church' when something like that already exists 'Jediism'? We are the TotJO division of Jediism and they are whatever division of Jediism etc.

Unless what you want is not unification but uniformity - then you have already failed.

I understand a lot of the points made here. First of all, let me address what I see as meaningful purpose:
This is something that arises out of beliefs. Each person may vary but Jedi have a few common beliefs. Every time I read an introduction of a new member there's some reference to how they've felt this their whole lives, and in many cases it was destiny or fate or the force that brought them here. So to connect Jediism with a meaningful purpose for a temple, I would say that it's what we've wanted our whole lives. It may seem impossible and against all odds, but that's just like your opinion man.

A meaningful purpose for society in general... Jediism is open to all and offers enlightenment that isn't available in any school courses or other religions. So a temple could serve as a place to go and learn the Jedi way.

Meaningful purpose worthy of donations of the poor/rich: This is to answer the question "Why should I donate to you?". Or "What's in it for me?". In Buddhist countries, even the poorest people donate to the monks... it's rumored to give one good luck... If you want to collect money from non-Jedis, you need to answer this question to their satisfaction. I don't think promising good luck or blessings will cut it these days. You could focus on the positive aspects of having more Jedis around... Maybe Jedis are the kind of people who will stick up for the weak? Help others? You never know, maybe cities will be fighting over who gets to have a Jedi temple like they do over who gets google fiber...

I brought this up and asked Brenna because she probably deals with this more often. Mission statements, purposes, etc all have some similarities in the not-for-profit umbrella and having a good outlay can help fundraise, sort of the way having a cool commercial helps sell iPhones.

I'm not a big fan of soliciting donations from members either. I am, however, a big fan of soliciting donations from rich people. I do believe that TOTJOs status as a church provides a tax write-off. Rich people are constantly looking for tax write-offs. You could even appeal to their morality by telling them that by donating to TOTJO instead of paying taxes, they are funding peace rather than war... the choice is theirs to make... hehe. But this goes back to the "meaningful purpose" that I warned you to get straight before soliciting donations.

I know this dude who built a castle all by himself. You can learn to do it too in about 10min:

Now he has a donation box at the castle and hundreds of thousands of people come by every year. People have weddings there and you can buy etched glass windows with your name on it. That's how he funds the ongoing building. It's amazing and inspiring.

Our server cost is $60 per month to run the site. That's $720 for a year.

Br. John wrote: Our server cost is $60 per month to run the site. That's $720 for a year.

Bill Gates spends more than that on one cup of coffee...

Whyte Horse wrote: I understand a lot of the points made here. First of all, let me address what I see as meaningful purpose:
This is something that arises out of beliefs. Each person may vary but Jedi have a few common beliefs. Every time I read an introduction of a new member there's some reference to how they've felt this their whole lives, and in many cases it was destiny or fate or the force that brought them here. So to connect Jediism with a meaningful purpose for a temple, I would say that it's what we've wanted our whole lives. It may seem impossible and against all odds, but that's just like your opinion man.

A meaningful purpose for society in general... Jediism is open to all and offers enlightenment that isn't available in any school courses or other religions. So a temple could serve as a place to go and learn the Jedi way.

Meaningful purpose worthy of donations of the poor/rich: This is to answer the question "Why should I donate to you?". Or "What's in it for me?". In Buddhist countries, even the poorest people donate to the monks... it's rumored to give one good luck... If you want to collect money from non-Jedis, you need to answer this question to their satisfaction. I don't think promising good luck or blessings will cut it these days. You could focus on the positive aspects of having more Jedis around... Maybe Jedis are the kind of people who will stick up for the weak? Help others? You never know, maybe cities will be fighting over who gets to have a Jedi temple like they do over who gets google fiber...

I brought this up and asked Brenna because she probably deals with this more often. Mission statements, purposes, etc all have some similarities in the not-for-profit umbrella and having a good outlay can help fundraise, sort of the way having a cool commercial helps sell iPhones.

I'm not a big fan of soliciting donations from members either. I am, however, a big fan of soliciting donations from rich people. I do believe that TOTJOs status as a church provides a tax write-off. Rich people are constantly looking for tax write-offs. You could even appeal to their morality by telling them that by donating to TOTJO instead of paying taxes, they are funding peace rather than war... the choice is theirs to make... hehe. But this goes back to the "meaningful purpose" that I warned you to get straight before soliciting donations.

Yes. A meaningful purpose is absolutely a requirement before soliciting for donations.

So you're not a fan of soliciting donations from the people who are actually going to use the Temple... interesting.
But you are a fan of soliciting money from rich people who have no connection to the temple... right.

And yes, I do tend to deal with this often. Donor development is my key not for profit skill, which is essentially taking a donor and turning them into a committed supporter. This includes the solicitation of major donors (catergorised as people who donate on average upwards of $5000) and its hard work. Because even rich people, for whom you seem to have such little regard, still concern themselves with ensuring that the money they donate is used effectively and for a meaningful purpose.

I don't know how many rich people you deal with on a regular basis, but the ones that tend to support charities do so because they see it as an investment into much needed services. And its takes a LOT of effort to convince them of the worthiness of a cause. But their reasons for donating are often the same as a poor persons. And there are as many reasons as there are people.

There are always those who use it as a tax break. (though, one of my more genius campaigns was to convince them to donate their tax rebate to us! Most profitable month of the year ) There are those who use it as a tool to engage their staff, some who do it for the prestige. In the same way that those with less money get to brag about how many african orphans photographs sit on their refrigerator, those with more money get to have their names emblazoned on buildings.

The sad fact about fundraising for anything is that you are selling people nothing. Whether they are rich or poor, they get only what they feel out of the transaction. Even if the cause is a worthwhile one.

And Whyte Horse, you have a rather uneasy belief about rich people. I know some wonderful people with money, and also some horrid ones. But the same goes for those that I know without money. Money does not make people bad or immoral. It just magnifies who they are.

However, with a church, I struggle to see why membership should not be solicited. If they are using the facilities of a temple or church, then why should someone unconnected with the church bear the cost of that?


As I have mentioned before. When we are in a position of need, I would be happy to volunteer my experience with developing a strategy.

Whyte Horse wrote:

Wescli Wardest wrote: There’s been a lot of discussion in this thread and a lot of talk.

Honestly, I donate every year and am glad to. And if need be I will donate more. Do we need a physical temple? No. But I plan on building one in a few years anyways. And I have been planning on building one for over a year now.

I don’t think TotJO is in any danger of being at the point where it is time to build a temple on her own. So to me, the entire debate about it is a moot one. Just my opinion.

PS. And what’s wrong with Twinkie? :huh:

hahahhahahhaha :laugh: :silly: :woohoo:

Well Wescli, thank you for supporting the temple and being so generous. If you plan on building a temple then why not team up with losers like me to make it an awesome loserville? No just kidding I'm a winner not a loser. Or maybe I'm a loser and not a winner, I forgot. But anyway the most important thing is we can work together and lose or win side-by-side and that's what's important.

As crappy as it may sound, the reason I don’t plan on teaming up with anyone is because I will most likely pay the cost of it and provide the land for it. And if it is on my land then I am responsible for all the legal aspects of it and the one that has to carry insurance on it, get the proper permits and maintain upkeep. It’s a big deal and I would love help.

And seeing how I have an engineering degree, working on the funds and supplying the greater majority of it and taking on the responsibility, I would like to choose who I get to deal with when the time comes. I have seen too many good projects and friendships torn apart by such undergoing’s.

That and I have absolutely NO desire to argue the best way to build something. Hahahhahahhha


I will take input when the time comes... and I will submit plans to the council since it will have TotJO's name on it.

Whyte Horse wrote:

Br. John wrote: Our server cost is $60 per month to run the site. That's $720 for a year.

Bill Gates spends more than that on one cup of coffee...

Well, then we're all set. We just have to convince Bill Gates to sign up at TOTJO, maybe give him a nice honorary title like Grand Emperor of the Galaxy, and we'll get enough money to build not only a temple but maybe a Death Star as well

How about introducing a voluntary tithe? Those who would like to be involved in increasing the funds of TOTJO could donate 10% of their weekly/monthly increase, after all of their other affairs have been taken care of.

For example, if you earn 250pw and you use that money to buy food, pay bills, go to work, etc. At the end of the week you donate 10% of what you have left. If you have (£,$)25 left over, you would donate 2.50 to the TOTJO. It's not much, and it wouldn't put a dent in your pocket, but if there were enough people committed to doing this over an extended period of time, the funds would soon increase.

It's just a thought, and one that I am not precious about. Run with it or reject it, I'm happy either way.

Whyte Horse wrote: I really want to look into the trademark infringement that was mentioned. I strongly believe that TOTJO has sufficiently divested itself from Lucas Arts and I believe that anyone claiming TOTJO is infringing Lucas is violating my right to express my religion.

There are so many, many beams we need to yank out of our eyes before we traipse down the legal road to pull the trademark splinter out of Disney's. Not to mention the fact that if the word is trademarked, its "religious" status will not protect it from the law. In point of fact, our assertion that we are NOT movie Jedi may hurt us in this regard, by prompting the courts to ask "If the movies define Jedi, and you aren't movie Jedi, then why do you insist on the name? Why can't you change it to something that doesn't infringe on someone else's intellectual property?"

And, truthfully, I don't think any of us have a good bullsh*t response to that without taking about 7 minutes to confer with one another.

Brenna wrote: Firstly, one of the reasons I would not at this stage support the building of an official Temple, or for that matter advocate that we have an agressive fundraising strategy for the current funding needs, is because I dont believe that we are in a place where it is necessary. I dont know that we are ready for it.

I'd say we're not. I looked at the lists of knights and clergy the other day, and the numbers of folks (worldwide) who are "high" enough in the ranks to oversee or teach at such a Temple is barely enough for a good slumber party. We may get a fi'ty-'lev'm hits a day, but we don't have a membership nearly that high.

Drexid wrote: My initial idea was that we could continually improve it as time passes. From wood, to concrete, to the goal.

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm a simple carpenter's son, but I don't think building works quite that way without a lot of demolition costs, too.

Drexid wrote: But remember Ve-Lo-Zi, Jediism isn't your typical christian religion.

As a Christian, I'm going to let you know right now that Christianity isn't even your typical Christian religion. And also, that TOTJO-Jediism is basically (in terms of organization and secular affairs) like putting Christianity and Buddhism in a blender, and pouring it into a website-shaped mold. The organizational structures, the fundraising methods, all of it are close enough to other major religions (rather than being more like other NRMs) as makes no matter whatsoever.

Drexid wrote: Does a temple call for the unification of the jedi religion? It would be hard to do, but very good for jediism. Is it realistic?

:lol: :silly: :lol: :silly: :lol: :pinch:

I'm on mobile so I can't quote, and that kind of sucks. I'm reading several statements referring to Jediism as another "Christian religion." This is coming from the mouth of a Sith, please, in the name of everything that is holy and good, STOP. Jediism is NOT a Christian religion, it is not Christianity in disguise.....ugh

Edit: It's possible that the comment in question was not in fact used in the context as read above, and if that's the case, my apologies....

Zenchi wrote: I'm on mobile so I can't quote, and that kind of sucks. I'm reading several statements referring to Jediism as another "Christian religion." This is coming from the mouth of a Sith, please, in the name of everything that is holy and good, STOP. Jediism is NOT a Christian religion, it is not Christianity in disguise.....ugh

Tapatalk works well for the quoting, and you can quote at least three differnet sources...

Just sayin'...

I have to use browser fo PM's, but I use tapatalk more and more.... :whistle:

Well maybe you should all team up and do a membership drive


I think it would be great if more people knew about Jediism but I'm not really looking forward to large numbers of Jedis. Think about what you're wishing for... Some say we we need more members before we'll need a temple. Others say we need a temple to increase our members. I say to hell with more members, haha.

I also don't think we should pander to the rich. If they can afford to donate but don't then that's their problem; the obvious lack of funds in the donation coffers shows us what the rich think of our religion.

I've never been a big fan of money. Maybe when I get time I'll build a temple with no money in order to teach you all a little lesson :whistle:

OK already, I've found the answer....





LEGO TEMPLES FOR EVERYONE!!!!!

split topic / split conversation

donations
real temple

for the real temple AGAIN, how we can have a temple without our name?
can we solve this?
there is no point to have a temple called whatever, not our name

"Jediism" is already trademarked too?

IMO, we need to solve the name problem (if is possible)
MOST important
this is an ONLINE temple, and even in this way, we as community can not make money to the minimum ( pay for the server)
one time this online temple, can survive by itself ( donations or whatever) lets go to the name or the real temple

doesn't make any sense to think about keep alive (afford) a real property when we can not pay just for a server.

Parks are free, the server that keep us all together is not.

666 wrote: Parks are free, the server that keep us all together is not.

Most sensible thing in the thread so far.

As I have told a few members on this site, it is one of my future goals to open up a monastery in the southern part of my state which is close to the border between NY and PA (Lots of wooded land and cheap real-estate for building). I have already been looking at potential locations, although it is more window-shopping at the moment as I am in no financial position to place a payment on real estate for a monastery.

It is not my intent to have this monastery be a physical site for the TOTJO temple that everyone has talked about, but instead to have a real-world monastery with foundations built on the faith of Jediism which is promoted by TOTJO. As you can imagine, this would take a great deal of money to take from an idea and transform into a reality. I am currently looking for sponsors to help fund the monastery so that the monks which reside there can put time into serving the local community and engaging in upkeep of the monasteries grounds, however if I cannot make that happen then I may have to consider making it more of a community for lay monastics, who reside within the monastery but continue to work regular jobs in order to help fund the monastic community.

In the end, a big part of developing a temple or in this case a monastery, comes down in equal parts to the community which the temple/monastery will be serving, and the influx of finances which keeps the temple/monastery going. Without a community to serve, there is no point in having a temple or monastery. Without a steady influx of finances to pay the operating costs of the temple/monastery, as well as the costs of feeding the monastics/clergy who reside there and addressing the costs of providing healthcare for those clergy members, a temple/monastery will not be able to continue to serve the community which they have committed themselves to.

It may take me a few years to get this project into effect, or it may take decades. However, even if I have to fund this project entirely with my own money and continue working in order to establish a real world monastery based off the principals and beliefs of Jediism, I fully intend to at some point in the future, accomplish this goal of mine.

So, just thought I would throw it out there that there are those of us on here who are putting into plans of opening up some form of real world community based on the concepts and principals of Jediism.

As to the copyright name, why not change it to Temple of the Force, or Way of the Force, or use the Japanese form Temple of the Jidai Order?I see how the movie inspired the religion, but I also see many of it's members opposed or uncaring about labels and definitions.
It seems like this determination to keep Jedi in the name may well keep the group from legally advancing. "What is in a name? That which we call a rose by any other would still smell as sweet?" -Shakespear

Also included is a website with cheap building cost plans:
http://m.simplesolarhomesteading.com/site/mobile?dm_path=%2Findex.htm&fw_sig_api_key=522b0eedffc137c934fc7268582d53a1&fw_sig_access_token=55764040daab5cddda5d348b1d5b3ae7641def47&fw_sig_permissions=none&fw_sig_locale=en-US&fw_sig=58526c60942cd09b559fe6ae44268303&fw_sig_tier=2&fw_sig_social=1&fw_sig_session_key=f83efaa8eced56e9e556dab6dbacb11b5e016ca6748018cf68eb29f6e554d354-29190532&fw_sig_site=29190532&fw_sig_potential_abuse=1&fw_sig_is_admin=0&fw_sig_permission_level=0&fw_sig_premium=1&fw_sig_url=http://www.simplesolarhomesteading.com/&fw_sig_time=1395722480893&fb_sig_network=fw

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jidaigeki

Just in case someone wants to reference it in the future. It would be neat to have a temple, but yeah, land tax is expensive. Plus we should focus on building money towards to website first.

How about J3di :lol: