The Problem with Black Lives Matter

Kobos wrote:

ZealotX wrote: You asked where does the teaching/reforming/healing/etc. begin? Depending on where YOU are, YOU, by virtue of being different, change racism and the form it takes. Black people cannot solve this problem because it is self replicated in white culture. Let me give you a real example of something I personally experienced this spring.


A little white kid said something about my fiance's son being black and "white people are better".

I could have reacted but I held my peace. The white kid said this, not just in front of him, but in front of me and in front of his father. We were all within 5 feet of this. His father said nothing; offered nothing in the way of any apology, nor did I expect one because clearly that's most likely where he got it from. And if there was any correction, we didn't see it and it was after the fact and probably had more to do with saying it in front of us.

I would love for my children (my fiance's son is only 12) to grow up in a world without this perverse way of thinking but nothing I could say would have changed that kid's mind because that was parental authority being passed down. It was part of that child's culture just as much as the English language. So what am I supposed to do? What can I do? I can only tell you my story in hopes that your ears aren't deaf and hope that you have greater influence over kids like that than I, "the inferior one", could have. It has to come from white people.

Absolutely not. But I cannot prevent them from forming negative feelings if they have consistently bad interactions with them. Fortunately mine don't and they have all had/have white friends who I assume don't treat them as inferior.

The solution could only be the influence of black people getting the attention of white people so that white people use their influence to get the attention of the white people who are programmed not to listen to us and who don't care about us, to those to whom our lives truly do not matter, and influence them towards change or be a light for their children to show them that not all white people think they are superior to other humans and that what you own, or your socio-economic status, doesn't make you superior. I probably make more than that kid's father, but does it matter? At all? Absolutely not. Before BLM most black-white interactions were superficial because they did not deal with racial issues. So even if you think a black person is your friend, if they're not cool enough with you to talk about race, it's possible that they don't trust you that far based on a history of whites who didn't want to talk about it because they didn't care enough to or just wish the topic would just go away even though the effects of it are alive and well.

We say black lives matter only because, to some, we know they don't. Even if you believe saying ALL LIVES MATTER accomplishes the same thing; it doesn't. Because the fact that it was created to COUNTER the statement that black lives matter, means that it is designed to ignore, specifically, black lives as a racial group being actively and systematically oppressed. ALL LIVES are not being oppressed based on race. White men in suits are not stopped and frisked. There are no establishments that deny whites entry or service because you wear clothes thought to be part of white culture. No one shoots you because you're wearing a hoodie or playing loud music. ALL LIVES aren't faced with the same issues for the same reasons. And the statistics for UNARMED police shootings is evidence of this.

The Solutions of BLM are mostly related to policing. They have successfully pushed for policy changes and as a result more police are using body cams and there's more community oversight. These policy changes benefit white people too. So what it's called Black Lives Matter? What's the difference between us saying it and having to fill out "Black" or "African American" on application forms and documents? We don't know how that's being used. What we do know is when we give our children names that sound more "white" than "black" they have an easier time getting jobs. It's been proven. What's the solution? Again... influence. The best thing I can do is raise the level of consciousness around me and try to make other black people better - whom I have greater influence over, and hope that something I say in the presence of whites is able to cause one of you to say something different, do something different, to lessen the effect or hinder the reproduction of racism.

I wanted to take the time to hank you for the well thought out answer. I also appreciate the flattery, it does however, suck that I am considered different though as I'm simply being empathetic towards another human experience, but it simply came from doing something you mentioned in another post. I had a deep long conversation with my roommate (he was obviously black and also from the South Side of Chicago) in college about race. Interestingly enough it came from a discussion on a vibe I picked up from some gentlemen who came over to get green. I could tell they were unsavory to say the least, for perspective I spent a good amount of time selling (I do not anymore but everyone was young and only green, no other drugs), that means exposure to a different set of principles to judge upon. Criminals shouldn't really judge criminals but it becomes a safety issue when money and other stuff is involved. My assumption was right; but we had a deep conversation about what caused my predisposition in that situation. He decided my concern was founded in logic, but he also shared some experiences and ways of looking at racism I didn't really think of from my perspective along the way. "It's not the overt S$3T that get's to me, it's the subtle stuff that bothers me, like someone not meeting a gaze or someone assuming my course of action without relation." That was his statement was an eye opener. The assumption of socio-economic status by race is an example.

I applaud your temperance in the scenario above, I would have had a serious talk with my child about any statement like that (It was how I was raised). I run into stuff like this more than I would like to say, particularly, working in a suburban high-school setting. However, though I'm not the parent, so beyond letting them know they don't understand the experience and that maybe they should look a little open minded, or that they are just being stupid my influence on them is limited. However, influence I have to use none the less. I agree though that the solution does in a way start with me but in general it starts with all of us. We each have a role to play here and each of our actions should and need share a general attachment to one another. I can and have reached to those around me about racism it is the minimum I can do. I agree that the movement cannot police the whole of itself it is not possible in an movement/organization after certain size. However, word of mouth particularly now with social media holds a new power, so any uncultivated action by those in leadership (tend to be positive statements) and those not (the less positive ones that are very popularly thrown around) can be devistating or incredibly up lifting. With this in mind I think we need to look at why the most shocking and ignorant statements tend to sway public opinion and how to make that shift; that and education both in general and on different cultural perspective are where we can start in my opinion.

This dialogue here, though I am sure frustrating and painful to some, is incredibly important to keep going while it maintains its course of civil dialog with presentation of at least path ways to solutions. I appreciate the peacefulness of this thread and hope it continues; the more perspectives we each strive to understand the better. just never try to understand a perspective from your perspective, objectivity is key or you will become judgmental of given situation (history major in college.....) Thank you everyone for your contributions please keep it peaceful. Adder thanks for your contribution I think it helps to see an outside the US (it also, makes us define , think and consider the simpler parts of the dialog in the US (we don't tend to do this much in the US on issues that are difficult), when most the time we are arguing finer points with fervent passion) perspective on this too. This will not be without effect on emotions but the community will be better served by temperance here than flaring tempers (steps off soap box, takes soap box, burns soap box, realizes he's an a-hole for standing on it, then wonders how he got a wood soap box these days in the first place.)

In Peace and Respect,
Tim

It does kind of suck that you're different, but in the same way that whites have different experiences from black people, you've had experiences with black people that many other whites haven't had. This is often taken for granted. I think that MLK's dream involved all of our children playing together because he knew that those children would grow up with a new and different perspective and having spent that time together, they would have a deeper understanding and stronger connection. I don't blame white people (generally speaking) for being manipulated by the political spin that is designed to attack BLM and cause them to misunderstand what it's about. Part of understanding each other has to be understanding there is good and bad on both sides.

During the height of BLM I was on a couple of different conference calls where different people were trying to organize protests and figure out "what we should do". I say this in all seriousness. The majority of black people have no idea how to solve these problems so there is a element of desperation. When you're desperate any chick at the bar starts looking like a supermodel after awhile. The easiest ideas take the least thought and the least coordination and are the least complex. My solution to them is always economic because there is a certain level of responsibility that black people have even when it comes to racism. It's true that we often have to be twice as good as the competition in order to make it. And because a minority of us will always be exceptional there will always be success stories even at the height of racism. But it is the lack of economic power that means the most exceptional are not creating jobs for the least. Too many of our people are selling drugs (although its mostly weed) just to survive because of a lack of economic opportunity. Economic solutions are not simple because it is extremely difficult for black people in general to get money from white institutions. But I digress. The people in my community who have the ideas are usually not the people who have time or the people who have money. It is only when these 3 things connect that something positive comes as a result. Because I was involved in a positive movement I was more vocal about what I believed were the right solutions. But instead of our two communities reacting to each other's negativity we need to react to each other's positivity. But being on these phone calls, there were always individuals who talked about fighting and they always seemed to be trying to hijack the call away from the organizers. It got to the point where myself and a friend of mine who was heavily involved in economic solutions more from an relationship with Africa perspective, we were calling these people out and nullifying their potential influence. My friend was even of the belief that they weren't real; that they had been kind of sent to disrupt. Had it not been a conference call and instead been a live protest I can see how organizers could easily be overpowered or have their platform hijacked. Even Bernie Sanders (in a move I didn't agree with) had his podium hijacked by those two women representing BLM. He wasn't threatened by it so he allowed it to happen, but still he took heat for it.

Unlike my friend, I do believe those people were real. They were hurt, angry, and frustrated. When the twin towers fell in 2011 people were hurt, angry, and frustrated and they wanted to fight. What people generally ignore is WHY. They don't see everyone being targeted and killed, even unarmed, by the state they pay taxes to. They only see themselves being victimized by racists cops who they're not even allowed to fight back against. Hurt. Angry. Frustrated. I am thankful that I am nearly immune to emotionalism. Because I understand them, even though I cannot agree with all of their actions. One thing is true, we can't become the very thing we're fighting against. That's when that thing has won. People who are hurt, angry, and frustrated, don't mind the irrationality of it all that turns them into terrorists. They don't need you or I to understand their reasons or motivations. They simply feel like you haven't listened to peaceful talk so maybe you'll hear this___(insert wrong thing here)___. Usually, that wrong thing is to do to them what they do to you in an effort to show them how it feels. I think that is essentially what Terrorism is and why it wont end as long as all we do is fight it (and especially by fighting it in a way that kills innocent civilians).

When human beings don't listen we fight. And it's sad. I don't want to fight. Most of us don't want to fight. We just want to be heard because we feel like we're being fought. It's like a war that Congress never agreed to and therefore has plausible deniability and no responsibility. There are so many black people that feel like there is already a war against them you would be amazed. And then you'd be stuck in the Matrix wondering whether or not to believe us or whether we are all insane. It's one of the reasons why we're careful who we even tell our history to because you never know if that person is Neo or if that person is an agent Smith. And again... that's why these conversations are unusual. Your black friend was a true friend because he allowed your relationship to reach beyond that surface level of which we're typically all cordial and friendly with each other regardless of race. I think the truth is that we know that racism creates sides. One side is right and the other is wrong and what's right to one could be wrong to the other and "do I really want to know if my 'friend' isn't really on my side?" Maybe I'd rather not risk that and not even have that conversation. Maybe my friend might think I was asking them to choose sides since that's how a lot of white people take it.

That's interesting to me. When race is brought up it is amazing how many people get offended who claim not to be racists; just like the young man in the video in the original post. We hear it often. "I'm not a racist BUT..." Why? Why do they get offended? This is an assumption but I'm going to put it out there. The ideas they express don't sound like they've had a private conversation with a black person. So why is their first conversation in the public sphere? But they're not racists though. They either can't see the issue from the black perspective or they can't see the issue from a completely unbiased perspective because they can't help but see themselves as "white" in comparison to an issue that is "black". And for some reason this is different from feminism or gay rights where you don't have to be a female or a homosexual to support their basic human rights or legal status. It seems to some of us like it is more permissible to be homosexual than it is to be black. And the gay rights movement was probably the most perfect most successful protest movement in American history. But because anyone from any socio-economic class could be homosexual it also had a lot of advantages. The one advantage of being black is a lot of white women secretly suspect you're packing. Even with the advantages and the near flawless execution there was plenty of opposition to the Gay Rights movement. So I guess my point is that there was almost no possibility that no matter what they did, BLM was inevitably going to get attacked.

Solutions, solutions. The solution is having the conversation so that we can keep coming up with solutions and so we can keep understanding the problem and our place in it. It is my belief that BLM was never perfect and never above making mistakes but as long as we see BLM as a negative thing our opinion is going to be manipulated and controlled by racists who don't care about black lives and don't want to change anything that would help black people. This doesn't sound right and doesn't make sense in this day and age since we all know that, by now, we should be past racism. However, we're not. Too many of us are afraid of the conversation because we're either afraid to be thought of as racists or afraid to uncover racists in the people we want to like and have relationships with. But we have to get over these fears and figure out how we can help each other.

ZealotX wrote:

ren wrote: My wife is black my kids are tanned, I have every reason in the world to want an end to BLM, they are a threat to my family's continued existence. BLM's "me me me but not you" approach only serves to create enemies they once did not have.

unfortunately, this is proof of what I was saying about ALL LIVES MATTER being a skillful political attack against the movement.

BLM is not in any way a threat to you or your family. You've been lied to by those who were already enemies of BLM before the organization ever existed.

I don't make projections on the basis of opinions, sooo... no.

@ZealotX

ive read your posts and i appreciate them.. im also reviewing the links you shared.
i might not be able to respond tonight because there is a lot of content..

i think we're going to have a very meaningful conversation.

Ive begun my reply but i dont have time to finish it. Iim not goingto give a partial response to the things that youve said. in the mean time, please take a gander at the following, as they all have relevance to specific things youve mentioned here, and offer some insight on my views


https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-discussions/113066-celebrities-you-can-see-as-jedi-s


https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-discussions/112168-example-of-police-militarization?limitstart=0


https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-discussions/115302-about-police-shootings-in-america-duh?limitstart=0


I found myself sympathetic to much of what the young man said. Im posting this particularly in regards to the question of violence..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wG_xm-J7Z4

ZealotX wrote: But it is the lack of economic power that means the most exceptional are not creating jobs for the least. Too many of our people are selling drugs (although its mostly weed) just to survive because of a lack of economic opportunity. Economic solutions are not simple because it is extremely difficult for black people in general to get money from white institutions. But I digress. The people in my community who have the ideas are usually not the people who have time or the people who have money. It is only when these 3 things connect that something positive comes as a result. Because I was involved in a positive movement I was more vocal about what I believed were the right solutions. But instead of our two communities reacting to each other's negativity we need to react to each other's positivity. But being on these phone calls, there were always individuals who talked about fighting and they always seemed to be trying to hijack the call away from the organizers. It got to the point where myself and a friend of mine who was heavily involved in economic solutions more from an relationship with Africa perspective, we were calling these people out and nullifying their potential influence. My friend was even of the belief that they weren't real; that they had been kind of sent to disrupt. Had it not been a conference call and instead been a live protest I can see how organizers could easily be overpowered or have their platform hijacked. Even Bernie Sanders (in a move I didn't agree with) had his podium hijacked by those two women representing BLM. He wasn't threatened by it so he allowed it to happen, but still he took heat for it.

When human beings don't listen we fight. And it's sad. I don't want to fight. Most of us don't want to fight. We just want to be heard because we feel like we're being fought. It's like a war that Congress never agreed to and therefore has plausible deniability and no responsibility. There are so many black people that feel like there is already a war against them you would be amazed. And then you'd be stuck in the Matrix wondering whether or not to believe us or whether we are all insane. It's one of the reasons why we're careful who we even tell our history to because you never know if that person is Neo or if that person is an agent Smith. And again... that's why these conversations are unusual. Your black friend was a true friend because he allowed your relationship to reach beyond that surface level of which we're typically all cordial and friendly with each other regardless of race. I think the truth is that we know that racism creates sides. One side is right and the other is wrong and what's right to one could be wrong to the other and "do I really want to know if my 'friend' isn't really on my side?" Maybe I'd rather not risk that and not even have that conversation. Maybe my friend might think I was asking them to choose sides since that's how a lot of white people take it.

That's interesting to me. When race is brought up it is amazing how many people get offended who claim not to be racists; just like the young man in the video in the original post. We hear it often. "I'm not a racist BUT..."


Solutions, solutions. The solution is having the conversation so that we can keep coming up with solutions and so we can keep understanding the problem and our place in it. It is my belief that BLM was never perfect and never above making mistakes but as long as we see BLM as a negative thing our opinion is going to be manipulated and controlled by racists who don't care about black lives and don't want to change anything that would help black people. This doesn't sound right and doesn't make sense in this day and age since we all know that, by now, we should be past racism. However, we're not. Too many of us are afraid of the conversation because we're either afraid to be thought of as racists or afraid to uncover racists in the people we want to like and have relationships with. But we have to get over these fears and figure out how we can help each other.

ZealotX wrote:
This is something I am all to aware of and it's sad because it also reinforces certain things that people use to drive the wedge (even though we all do it). Example, had I got popped when I was that guy, the assumption would be that I was just selling weed as a kid on the side. That's part right, I had a job but I also had tuition and well an addiction I was feeding. I digress, had my roommate gotten picked up (partners) I can almost guarantee there would have been a way more significant investigation. This is all assumptions but mid-central IL is pretty solid on doing stuff like that as is society here in the US in general.

I believe those people also had that exact reasoning for fighting. I saw it in the protests originally in Ferguson. I think it would have been significantly different if the ACPs and other reactions had not occurred. I agree in some minds it creates sides.
The Neo and Agent Smith is a very good metaphor for the situation from my perspective. To it I have a new metaphorical response so excuse if its badly worried. You compare the white people to Neo when we have this conversation. But, what if I told you white people approaching this from my angle are simply like Morpheus, we are always looking to believe that there is a Neo and crew out there whom will initiate change and we are willing to put aside ourselves and fight for you. Ironically many of the whites that I would say haven't had this direct interaction or an understanding are just the crew. Those with open minds will still help they have been freed. But, they in some way must be shown they believe instead of just knowing it. End Matrix Metaphor........It sounded better in my head let me know if it doesn't make sense. Point is there are more open minds than are willing to say it, some stick to defenses and point to data. But most are willing to listen if you are willing to speak. Though I don't understand that fear as I haven't faced it on race nor do i fully grasp your perspective.

I agree on the economic reasoning you were looking to approach and step one is defiantly to find a way to position it to where it is equal (though it may take time). This again though falls all the way through to education. Sorry, I push this hard but again where I work i see a lot more kids whom are more misguided come from higher income. I know that given the same resources the city schooling particularly here in Chicago would make a huge difference in equalizing it, as would investment in individual neighborhoods that is not including gentrification.

If anyone has to say "I'm not "insert thing" thats a sign that well they probably are or really aren't thinking about their statements

"But we have to get over these fears and figure out how we can help each other."

This my friend is a most beautiful statement that doesn't show a side to be picked but a choice to be made by us all as the human race. I hope we get it right soon but I know eventually we will.

I messed up the quote system sorry..........

In peace,
Tim

I'd love to spend some time commenting on this thread. My mind has been otherwise occuppied, but I appreciate that this discussion is happening

Kobos wrote:

ZealotX wrote: But it is the lack of economic power that means the most exceptional are not creating jobs for the least. Too many of our people are selling drugs (although its mostly weed) just to survive because of a lack of economic opportunity. Economic solutions are not simple because it is extremely difficult for black people in general to get money from white institutions. But I digress. The people in my community who have the ideas are usually not the people who have time or the people who have money. It is only when these 3 things connect that something positive comes as a result. Because I was involved in a positive movement I was more vocal about what I believed were the right solutions. But instead of our two communities reacting to each other's negativity we need to react to each other's positivity. But being on these phone calls, there were always individuals who talked about fighting and they always seemed to be trying to hijack the call away from the organizers. It got to the point where myself and a friend of mine who was heavily involved in economic solutions more from an relationship with Africa perspective, we were calling these people out and nullifying their potential influence. My friend was even of the belief that they weren't real; that they had been kind of sent to disrupt. Had it not been a conference call and instead been a live protest I can see how organizers could easily be overpowered or have their platform hijacked. Even Bernie Sanders (in a move I didn't agree with) had his podium hijacked by those two women representing BLM. He wasn't threatened by it so he allowed it to happen, but still he took heat for it.

When human beings don't listen we fight. And it's sad. I don't want to fight. Most of us don't want to fight. We just want to be heard because we feel like we're being fought. It's like a war that Congress never agreed to and therefore has plausible deniability and no responsibility. There are so many black people that feel like there is already a war against them you would be amazed. And then you'd be stuck in the Matrix wondering whether or not to believe us or whether we are all insane. It's one of the reasons why we're careful who we even tell our history to because you never know if that person is Neo or if that person is an agent Smith. And again... that's why these conversations are unusual. Your black friend was a true friend because he allowed your relationship to reach beyond that surface level of which we're typically all cordial and friendly with each other regardless of race. I think the truth is that we know that racism creates sides. One side is right and the other is wrong and what's right to one could be wrong to the other and "do I really want to know if my 'friend' isn't really on my side?" Maybe I'd rather not risk that and not even have that conversation. Maybe my friend might think I was asking them to choose sides since that's how a lot of white people take it.

That's interesting to me. When race is brought up it is amazing how many people get offended who claim not to be racists; just like the young man in the video in the original post. We hear it often. "I'm not a racist BUT..."


Solutions, solutions. The solution is having the conversation so that we can keep coming up with solutions and so we can keep understanding the problem and our place in it. It is my belief that BLM was never perfect and never above making mistakes but as long as we see BLM as a negative thing our opinion is going to be manipulated and controlled by racists who don't care about black lives and don't want to change anything that would help black people. This doesn't sound right and doesn't make sense in this day and age since we all know that, by now, we should be past racism. However, we're not. Too many of us are afraid of the conversation because we're either afraid to be thought of as racists or afraid to uncover racists in the people we want to like and have relationships with. But we have to get over these fears and figure out how we can help each other.

This is something I am all to aware of and it's sad because it also reinforces certain things that people use to drive the wedge (even though we all do it). Example, had I got popped when I was that guy, the assumption would be that I was just selling weed as a kid on the side. That's part right, I had a job but I also had tuition and well an addiction I was feeding. I digress, had my roommate gotten picked up (partners) I can almost guarantee there would have been a way more significant investigation. This is all assumptions but mid-central IL is pretty solid on doing stuff like that as is society here in the US in general.

I believe those people also had that exact reasoning for fighting. I saw it in the protests originally in Ferguson. I think it would have been significantly different if the ACPs and other reactions had not occurred. I agree in some minds it creates sides.
The Neo and Agent Smith is a very good metaphor for the situation from my perspective. To it I have a new metaphorical response so excuse if its badly worried. You compare the white people to Neo when we have this conversation. But, what if I told you white people approaching this from my angle are simply like Morpheus, we are always looking to believe that there is a Neo and crew out there whom will initiate change and we are willing to put aside ourselves and fight for you. Ironically many of the whites that I would say haven't had this direct interaction or an understanding are just the crew. Those with open minds will still help they have been freed. But, they in some way must be shown they believe instead of just knowing it. End Matrix Metaphor........It sounded better in my head let me know if it doesn't make sense. Point is there are more open minds than are willing to say it, some stick to defenses and point to data. But most are willing to listen if you are willing to speak. Though I don't understand that fear as I haven't faced it on race nor do i fully grasp your perspective.

I agree on the economic reasoning you were looking to approach and step one is defiantly to find a way to position it to where it is equal (though it may take time). This again though falls all the way through to education. Sorry, I push this hard but again where I work i see a lot more kids whom are more misguided come from higher income. I know that given the same resources the city schooling particularly here in Chicago would make a huge difference in equalizing it, as would investment in individual neighborhoods that is not including gentrification.

If anyone has to say "I'm not "insert thing" thats a sign that well they probably are or really aren't thinking about their statements

"But we have to get over these fears and figure out how we can help each other."

This my friend is a most beautiful statement that doesn't show a side to be picked but a choice to be made by us all as the human race. I hope we get it right soon but I know eventually we will.

I messed up the quote system sorry..........

In peace,
Tim

OB1Shinobi wrote: @ZealotX

ive read your posts and i appreciate them.. im also reviewing the links you shared.
i might not be able to respond tonight because there is a lot of content..

i think we're going to have a very meaningful conversation.

Ive begun my reply but i dont have time to finish it. Iim not goingto give a partial response to the things that youve said. in the mean time, please take a gander at the following, as they all have relevance to specific things youve mentioned here, and offer some insight on my views


https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-discussions/113066-celebrities-you-can-see-as-jedi-s


https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-discussions/112168-example-of-police-militarization?limitstart=0


https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-discussions/115302-about-police-shootings-in-america-duh?limitstart=0


I found myself sympathetic to much of what the young man said. Im posting this particularly in regards to the question of violence..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wG_xm-J7Z4

I just want you to know that I followed your links and watched the videos. The Daily Show video is probably the best on the subject. I feel the same way. I defend BLM because it is one organization that is allowed to react to the racism that disproportionately targets minorities. HOWEVER, again, that doesn't mean that there isn't an escalation in terms of brutality and armament that affects us all. Just because a racist cop treats black people like runaway slaves doesn't mean he's automatically going to be a gentleman to everyone else. Sometimes A-hole is an A-hole is an A-hole. And just like there are different parts of a computer, we need different organizations putting pressure on the police. And I can tell you that it does work. Even if they say it isn't because of BLM, my local police department has done more to communicate with the community. I actually attended one of the meetings and was even interviewed for TV. BLM fighting the problem is a good thing. We need other organizations to do the same. If your bigger concern is the Army/PTSD aspect of the issue there's NOTHING wrong with that. Use that to put pressure of the police. Attacking BLM only lessens that pressure and gives the police a reason not to change.

You can support BLM to whatever degree you choose but champion your own cause. BLM never set out to be the only organization putting pressure on the police. That pressure is a direct result of the pain BLM feels, not just because of the deaths because we're used to each other dying, but because of the RACISM and injustice that not just leads to these deaths, but creates a system of white supremacy that allows people to get away with it. Black person kills another black person, they'll probably get caught and they'll probably go to jail. My god-brother got shot and killed just recently by another black person; some young kid. But when a white cop shoots a black kid... a kid even... there's always a bigger chance that cop will not suffer any legal consequence. And that sends a message too to other cops. "it's okay." "Go ahead and pull the trigger." "Kill that nigger." At some point the lack of consequence makes killing us "inconsequential". And if it is such then the lives of black people really don't matter to this system of government. And that's their concern.

But if your main concern is different and you were attacking the army/PTSD angle and someone attacked you and claimed you were ignoring the racism angle, that person would be wrong, especially if you've never said anything against BLM. But not only would that person be wrong for attacking you, we could reasonably assume they're doing so, not on the behalf or behest of BLM, but because they are otherwise motivated to try and stop you. Maybe they are being paid by the NRA? Who knows? There are too many guns in the US. They don't make us safer. They just make us more scared of each other because too many people can "push a button" and you're dead. And the people most motivated to protect the status quo in that case would be the gun manufacturers who make a profit as a result. So I ask again. Who benefits from attacking BLM? These attacks against BLM are, in essence, an attack on the legitimacy of racism being a problem in police culture. Who benefits from that?

Kobos wrote:
This is something I am all to aware of and it's sad because it also reinforces certain things that people use to drive the wedge (even though we all do it). Example, had I got popped when I was that guy, the assumption would be that I was just selling weed as a kid on the side. That's part right, I had a job but I also had tuition and well an addiction I was feeding. I digress, had my roommate gotten picked up (partners) I can almost guarantee there would have been a way more significant investigation. This is all assumptions but mid-central IL is pretty solid on doing stuff like that as is society here in the US in general.

Bill Maher did the same thing. Studies have shown whites sell weed just like black people do. The problem is just that black people are made into the face of it while whites are seen as more the victims. Now that heroin addiction is really hitting the white community, NOW there's more interest in tackling the problem. As much as my younger self didn't want to think there was institutional racism, when I learned about how they prosecuted crack differently from cocaine it was impossible to ignore. Literally, a different form of the same drug and the penalties were different. They didn't care that crack cocaine ravaged the black community. And as long as they could blame it on criminals and lowlifes mainstream society could easily turn a blind eye. They could just shake their heads and judge the morality of the people that used drugs as if we were somehow different than them.

Kobos wrote: The Neo and Agent Smith is a very good metaphor for the situation from my perspective. To it I have a new metaphorical response so excuse if its badly worried. You compare the white people to Neo when we have this conversation. But, what if I told you white people approaching this from my angle are simply like Morpheus, we are always looking to believe that there is a Neo and crew out there whom will initiate change and we are willing to put aside ourselves and fight for you. Ironically many of the whites that I would say haven't had this direct interaction or an understanding are just the crew. Those with open minds will still help they have been freed. But, they in some way must be shown they believe instead of just knowing it. End Matrix Metaphor........It sounded better in my head let me know if it doesn't make sense. Point is there are more open minds than are willing to say it, some stick to defenses and point to data. But most are willing to listen if you are willing to speak. Though I don't understand that fear as I haven't faced it on race nor do i fully grasp your perspective.

Well the reason I wouldn't say that conscious whites are like Morpheus is because Morpheus was "born free". He was born knowing the full truth of humanity and its relation to the machines. Neo is the one who had a choice to make. Neo is the one who could choose to wake up or stay sleep. But Neo is the one who is most effective in fighting the machines. Neo can fight them in a way that Morpheus can't. Neo can even COMMAND the machines... Neo... "much like a teacher" (wink, wink)... is a programmer.

Neo essentially got his own crew and they looked for more people they could wake up. I am happy to see communities of humans, white and black, who are CONSCIOUS or "woke". They see what their government is doing. They see the larger needs of the planet. They see injustice without partisanship and justifications. There is a growing movement of progressives who don't always get it right but their heart is in the right place and what more can we possibly ask for than that? Not to say that everyone on this site is "woke" but I am happy to be among all of you and I do consider this site to be a concentration of consciousness and enlightenment and I'm proud of everyone here. There is hope for the future because of our ideals and our understanding. One of the most powerful things I ever heard was a story about a black man who made friends with many members of the KKK. His solution wasn't hate and it wasn't fighting. It was love. He really wanted to know how could someone hate him if they didn't even know him. His love and friendship changed their minds.

I have been told that because I am a white man that I don’t know what I’m talking about and I shouldn’t talk. Seeing how I am not racist, I understand that all suffering is unique to the individual experiencing it no matter the color of their skin, the amount of money they have, their religion, their sex or sexual preference or how smart they are perceived to be; I believe that I do have an opinion that is valid.

As a wiser person, and I like to think I am , I understand that by adopting the values or tactics of ones perceived enemy’s that I will only accomplish the goals of that enemy. So if I thought that my enemy’s goals were to separate us and their values or tactics was hate and racism and I adapt hate and racism as my values or tactics then I will accomplish the segregation and separation I believed was my enemy’s goal.

“The devil doesn’t mind who does the hating so long as the hating gets done.” ~Andrew Klavan

Practical religion… In different religions you read, forgive those that hurt you, love your enemy. As a person who has suffered at the hands of others I know that my best course of action to promote healing and equality is to let it go.

“Everyone is in favor of forgiveness until there is something to forgive.” C. S. Lewis.

As Jedi we believe that, Where there is hatred I shall bring love; Where there is injury, pardon; I shall never seek so much to be consoled as to console; To be understood as to understand; To be loved as to love; For it is in giving that we receive; It is in pardoning that we are pardoned…
When there is an offense made that violates a law we should act. But not everything that causes offense is a violation of law or our rights. Compassion and wisdom are paramount when dealing with people.

Have you ever met someone who might not have the highest IQ but they know how to love and they act so wise in their lives and actions then people that might have higher IQs that don’t really know how to love. This is the lesson that religion, practical religion, is showing us... a path to wisdom. A wisdom on how to interact with the soul.

If we accept each other and each person’s experiences then we can learn to coexist in a singular world that is more beautiful and wonderful.

Those are just my thoghts on it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE5o4JoyMkE