What would help the Temple Be A Better Place? Suggestions please...

I'm not sure what you're asking... you pick people you think can and will do the job, people with a track record of contributing and being active, people who you believe will be good candidates... and those who prove to be benchwarmers, you ask to improve, and if they don't, you remove them. Like any job, really.

The issue is not in giving people a chance... it's in keeping all seats filled so no-one has a chance.

tzb wrote: I'm not sure what you're asking... you pick people you think can and will do the job, people with a track record of contributing and being active, people who you believe will be good candidates... and those who prove to be benchwarmers, you ask to improve, and if they don't, you remove them. Like any job, really.

The issue is not in giving people a chance... it's in keeping all seats filled so no-one has a chance.

Right, and I asked a few posts ago if filling those seats was something we had considered in addition to removing people from them.

Removing a person that has responsibilities needs to be filled as soon as possible because the removal of said person cause a strain on those that have to pick up the slack.

But we have no real idea how people will behave until they are put in the position and given the chance. I. for one, have never put someone somewhere because they were by buddy or whatever. I only put those in place that have shown they can do the job. But that doesn’t mean they are always going to do the job to the standard or liking of everyone else. We just don’t know till they are in that position. And then you have to “ask to improve, and if they don't, you remove them. Like any job, really.”

And that again takes time where someone else has to pick up the slack for that position not being done.

Some jobs, it isn’t as big a deal to the daily running of things. Some, it can be a complete pain in the butt.

TheDude wrote: I've heard of some folks waiting a long time -- months, even -- for a response from the council on any given thing. While the folks on the council have their own lives and I don't think any of us expect them to be on the website all of the time, it is really a shame that it takes so long for some people and I don't see why such processes can't be expedited.

Did they contact the Council Secretary? I'll give him a kick in the booty if he missed anything...

Adder wrote:

TheDude wrote: I've heard of some folks waiting a long time -- months, even -- for a response from the council on any given thing. While the folks on the council have their own lives and I don't think any of us expect them to be on the website all of the time, it is really a shame that it takes so long for some people and I don't see why such processes can't be expedited.

Did they contact the Council Secretary? I'll give him a kick in the booty if he missed anything...

I pm'd you last week about Hatters little book (written by himself and a few active members within the TOTJO) , mind posting your thoughts in the "Tea for your Midicloreans" thread?

Thanks in advance! :laugh:

Wescli Wardest wrote:

tzb wrote: I'm not sure what you're asking... you pick people you think can and will do the job, people with a track record of contributing and being active, people who you believe will be good candidates... and those who prove to be benchwarmers, you ask to improve, and if they don't, you remove them. Like any job, really.

The issue is not in giving people a chance... it's in keeping all seats filled so no-one has a chance.

Right, and I asked a few posts ago if filling those seats was something we had considered in addition to removing people from them.

Removing a person that has responsibilities needs to be filled as soon as possible because the removal of said person cause a strain on those that have to pick up the slack.

But we have no real idea how people will behave until they are put in the position and given the chance. I. for one, have never put someone somewhere because they were by buddy or whatever. I only put those in place that have shown they can do the job. But that doesn’t mean they are always going to do the job to the standard or liking of everyone else. We just don’t know till they are in that position. And then you have to “ask to improve, and if they don't, you remove them. Like any job, really.”

And that again takes time where someone else has to pick up the slack for that position not being done.

Some jobs, it isn’t as big a deal to the daily running of things. Some, it can be a complete pain in the butt.

OK... but the issue we're describing is people not doing much of anything. So, like you say, some jobs it's not a big deal to lose a person... in fact it represents an opportunity to gain another person who will take on some of the heavy lifting. We seem to live with the idea some seats don't do much. That puts more strain on those who DO. All anyone is suggesting here is, if someone's not performing, shift them out and take on someone who is asked to do... well, something.

It takes time, yes. But so far as anyone outside of the Council is concerned, bar one or two comments in this thread, it's not happening at all. So little consideration is given to how things seem from the outside, when all that is asked is "trust we're doing it"... how about seeing this as a two-way thing, where if you show people things happen, they'll trust things to get done. This is why people ask for transparency, this is why people want to know what's going on. Because beyond the day to day, which is vitally important, not much seems to be moving forward. If it is, great! Let's share that!

Zenchi wrote:

Adder wrote:

TheDude wrote: I've heard of some folks waiting a long time -- months, even -- for a response from the council on any given thing. While the folks on the council have their own lives and I don't think any of us expect them to be on the website all of the time, it is really a shame that it takes so long for some people and I don't see why such processes can't be expedited.

Did they contact the Council Secretary? I'll give him a kick in the booty if he missed anything...

I pm'd you last week about Hatters little book (written by himself and a few active members within the TOTJO) , mind posting your thoughts in the "Tea for your Midicloreans" thread?

Thanks in advance! :laugh:

Objection, relevance, LOL.... now you've got me worried, are you suggesting that was a request to Council for approval to link that book?

It read like a personal message, asking me to "download the file and read through it, and then offer up your feedback either privately or publicly in the thread" you said it 'was not a requirement' for me to do what you were asking.... so I had a look and don't have time to make a contribution right now... unless something I've said in a forum post was suitable which I could clean up. It is too broad a topic for me to canvass, I prefer specifics.

I didn't think you needed Council approval to post new content in the library, and the message doesn't seem to be asking for it. Don't go messing with my head, I take this stuff serious man

Of the things talked about, this is what I know, or can remember about council discussing them.

Support more causes/fundraising
Depending on what you mean, that has been shot down before when it comes to outside stuff. And we have done some fundraising that went well. We can always do more.

Journal Security – IP journals only viewable by Apprentices/Knights and up along with the author
With the way the site is set up now, I really don’t know a way to make that possible. It’s worth looking in to… but I just don’t know that it is possible with the current set up/structure.

More input and activity in public by Council members
That’s really dependent on the individual. Demand more of your leaders is all I can say.

Officer accountability/Term limits for offices/Transparency
Good ideas. I agree with them. They have been shot down before. Keep pushing if it’s something you really want.

Stop supplying copyrighted material for free
It’s been talked about before and I believe there was some kind of loop hole that allowed us something… I don’t really remember.

Use a different chat client that doesn’t interfere with the site/ability to open a separate window
Been asked lots of times. Lots of times. It would be great if it were possible. Still hung up in Council.

Create original material for the IP
That has been suggested many times before. There are parts of the IP that I think are really good and a serious benefit. But there is very little material being offered for use (if any) and no one that I know of is creating anything new.

Broken links in the FAQ and Library
It is a constant work in progress that keeps getting hindered.

Require IP completion in order to become a member
Not suggested before that I know of, but I like it.

Include more esoterism in discussion/training
Some has been added. I think it would be good to add it to the religions of the world section. There are some that I think are pretty good.

Protocol for removal of Officers other than by Council vote
It has not been talked about in a long time. And it is sometimes hard to get people to agree to making the security of their positions more volatile.

Adder wrote:

Zenchi wrote:

Adder wrote:

TheDude wrote: I've heard of some folks waiting a long time -- months, even -- for a response from the council on any given thing. While the folks on the council have their own lives and I don't think any of us expect them to be on the website all of the time, it is really a shame that it takes so long for some people and I don't see why such processes can't be expedited.

Did they contact the Council Secretary? I'll give him a kick in the booty if he missed anything...

I pm'd you last week about Hatters little book (written by himself and a few active members within the TOTJO) , mind posting your thoughts in the "Tea for your Midicloreans" thread?

Thanks in advance! :laugh:

Objection, relevance, LOL.... now you've got me worried, are you suggesting that was a request to Council for approval to link that book?

It read like a personal message, asking me to "download the file and read through it, and then offer up your feedback either privately or publicly in the thread" you said it 'was not a requirement' for me to do what you were asking.... so I had a look and don't have time to make a contribution right now... unless something I've said in a forum post was suitable which I could clean up. It is too broad a topic for me to canvass, I prefer specifics.

I didn't think you needed Council approval to post new content in the library, and the message doesn't seem to be asking for it. Don't go messing with my head, I take this stuff serious man

Sorry I asked for your opinion, I know now not to bother next time...

Zenchi wrote:

Adder wrote:

Zenchi wrote:

Adder wrote:

TheDude wrote: I've heard of some folks waiting a long time -- months, even -- for a response from the council on any given thing. While the folks on the council have their own lives and I don't think any of us expect them to be on the website all of the time, it is really a shame that it takes so long for some people and I don't see why such processes can't be expedited.

Did they contact the Council Secretary? I'll give him a kick in the booty if he missed anything...

I pm'd you last week about Hatters little book (written by himself and a few active members within the TOTJO) , mind posting your thoughts in the "Tea for your Midicloreans" thread?

Thanks in advance! :laugh:

Objection, relevance, LOL.... now you've got me worried, are you suggesting that was a request to Council for approval to link that book?

It read like a personal message, asking me to "download the file and read through it, and then offer up your feedback either privately or publicly in the thread" you said it 'was not a requirement' for me to do what you were asking.... so I had a look and don't have time to make a contribution right now... unless something I've said in a forum post was suitable which I could clean up. It is too broad a topic for me to canvass, I prefer specifics.

I didn't think you needed Council approval to post new content in the library, and the message doesn't seem to be asking for it. Don't go messing with my head, I take this stuff serious man

Sorry I asked for your opinion, I know now not to bother next time...

Chin up, I appreciated the request. Busy times is all. You can contact me anytime. I thought it was a generic request copy and paste email you'd sent to all Knights or something. If you want to chat you can PM me anytime.

I think what would be really useful, is if people didn't talk in "general terms". If you want accountability, then tell us what that looks like. What exactly do you want to see happen?

If you have issues with particular councelors or "higher ups" etc that you don't think are doing what you believe should be expected of them, then make a complaint about said person so it can be looked at and dealt with.

If we cannot pin point who or what is causing an issue, then we're going to have difficulty putting something in place to directly resolve said issue.