What would help the Temple Be A Better Place? Suggestions please...

Quotes are words, fictional stories are made up, doesn't matter the source, what matters is the meaning they invoke.

Because wisdom is innate, we can all enlighten ourselves.
Huineng

All know the way, but few actually walk it.
Bodhidharma

Kyrin,

I agree with you on the mourning. But think there should be a short mourning period. I have a cousin. It's been about 8 years since her son died. It seems like every day FB is filled with messages to that dead son. I think when it becomes an attachment and you can't go on with your life that it becomes an issue. To me the quote is about not letting the mourning control you. Miss them, and go on. I still miss my parents, but I don't spend every hour of every day mourning them.

rrhodes67 wrote: Kyrin,

I agree with you on the mourning. But think there should be a short mourning period. I have a cousin. It's been about 8 years since her son died. It seems like every day FB is filled with messages to that dead son. I think when it becomes an attachment and you can't go on with your life that it becomes an issue. To me the quote is about not letting the mourning control you. Miss them, and go on. I still miss my parents, but I don't spend every hour of every day mourning them.

Actually the quote says, Mourn them do not, Miss them do not. To me that does not mean letting the mourning control you but to not even engage in the mourning at all. While I agree that we should not let it control our lives I also believe it is a process that is necessary to go through. I also do not believe anyone can put a set time frame for another to go through that process either. I cant say if 8 years is to long, however in that, there could be other circumstances as well. Depression is a major one. Its not something people just "get over" or "shake off". Sometimes a bit of help is needed.

Atticus wrote:
The fiction was designed in part to illustrate the spiritual questions posed by Campbell, Watts, at al; throwing it out and expecting everyone to relate to the source material without the intermediary metaphor is a waste of what could be valuable and relatable teaching tools.

I agree with Arisaig's point - without the fiction, it's just another NRM mish-mash trying to do what traditional religions aren't satisfactorily accomplishing. As long as it is using the name "Jedi", there is going to be a relationship to what that stands for in 99% of the world, which is the Star Wars franchise. I don't see a problem with that, because quite obviously (based on the number of people I've seen sincerely coming here for spiritual purposes in the past month), there's a lot of us who find something unique and meaningful in it. Separating it out from role-playing IS important, as there's also a good chunk who - despite the FAQ and the big statements in large bold type on the home page - want to play out characters from the fiction rather than doing the work.

To me, the only real difference in this and most of the esoteric-oriented orders out there (including those who've been around for centuries) is that we don't claim a historical base for our philosophy/spirituality, as do Rosicrucians, Neo-Templars, Gnostics, etc. All of them draw some sort of initial model from something they've found in the historical story (and that story itself becomes fictitious from age to age, depending on what is known of the history at the time), and then build their techniques and philosophies, their rule of life, from it. Even traditional religions with a historical founder work on shreds of lore/scriptures, the interpretation of it, and patch in cultural mores for the rest. So...some people are never going to understand that this is as legitimate as anything else, and that's to be expected. One can always just go be a scientist and explore life that way if one wants to strip all but the quantifiable from it.

As for the lightsabers and robes - well, most of the martial arts schools out there practice with weapons that would not be used in real-life scenarios and many of them wear "pajamas" (or more respectfully, uniforms which recall the cultural/historical setting in which their arts were born). As long as you know what you're getting from the training, I do see any reason not to have a little fun. Personally, I find the power that the myth has to inspire and delight - especially for the future generations - to be part of the appeal that keeps me intrigued.

To go back to topic - as to how to make these lines more clear, I think the blend of gentle redirects in the introductions and consistent enforcement of the username policy stated on the introductory page is a good method. Beyond that, people seem to sort out what they're interested in and which particular ratio of fiction inclusion works for them once they get involved.

Manami wrote: To go back to topic - as to how to make these lines more clear, I think the blend of gentle redirects...

Could you give an example of this in practise? A theoretical situation, just so we can better understand what you're proposing?

Manami wrote: ...and consistent enforcement of the username policy stated on the introductory page is a good method.

We do try to enforce it, but alas some slip through the cracks, usually enforced if an account comes back (eg. Darth Insertedgynamehere wont be changed to Insertedgyname here (removing the Darth) until after they come back, or when they apply for membership). Would be a nightmare trying to change them all if the account is never used again. ;P

I had brought up in a chat that perhaps there should be some sorta bot that screens for usernames that break codes while people are making accounts, marking them as invalid. Of course, that would just end up creating accounts with purposeful misspellings of names (Darf instead of Darth) or some headache if it blocks the word Master but someone wants the name MacMaster (a common last name in my neck of the woods). ;P Its a real Pandora's Box, imo.

Well, for instance (one observed) - when a new guest does an introduction based on a Star Wars persona, and those responding explain that this isn't a forum that does roleplaying, but they do it in such a way that makes it an invitation to get to know folks here better and participate in the real exploration, rather than a put down. It may not be what the person was looking for, but it gives them the chance to reconsider and join in. It has to be irritating from the mod end to get the same kind of thing over and over, but for the person who is joining, it's the first time they're hearing it, and it speaks well of the Temple when they're not made the brunt of that frustration. So, good job, TOTJO greeters!

I understand how problematic it could be - some kind of method to screen names for the major terms (titles and characters, anyway) when they are chosen would probably be the best way, so that they never make it in.

I think we need to stress that we don't have any answers, only a (fun)starting point for people to find the answers themselves.


Reading this thread has me leaning toward withdrawing, or at the least, remaining no more than a member.

Why is everyone so worried about telling everyone else that the path they walk as a Jedi is wrong? Too much focus on being right!

Right ,wrong ,or indifferent, be the Jedi you want to be, and let others do the same. All of this arguing has had me doubting my own beliefs and actions.......no more! I know who I am, and why I am that way. And more so, what I BELIEVE I need to do to better myself and positively affect the world around me.That's what's important!

Zero_storm wrote: Why is everyone so worried about telling everyone else that the path they walk as a Jedi is wrong? Too much focus on being right!

Right ,wrong ,or indifferent, be the Jedi you want to be, and let others do the same. All of this arguing has had me doubting my own beliefs and actions.......no more! I know who I am, and why I am that way. And more so, what I BELIEVE I need to do to better myself and positively affect the world around me.That's what's important!

QFT. There will always be people who criticize the way you walk your Path. Take what helps you; leave the rest.

Zero_storm wrote: Why is everyone so worried about telling everyone else that the path they walk as a Jedi is wrong? Too much focus on being right!

Right ,wrong ,or indifferent, be the Jedi you want to be, and let others do the same. All of this arguing has had me doubting my own beliefs and actions.......no more! I know who I am, and why I am that way. And more so, what I BELIEVE I need to do to better myself and positively affect the world around me.That's what's important!

Because many here cannot conceive of something such as being a Jedi as having true value unless it is an objective value (a standard) that applies to everyone. Some feel they need to have a standard to compare themselves and others to in order to give a value to where they are on their path. It is very difficult for them to think of this "playing field" any differently. To them, if this kind of system does not take place, than it must be a value-less definition-less free-for-all that might as well not exist.

There are some of us like myself who don't see the "playing field" in terms of a "moral model", but instead in more of an "existential model", since it is the existential level of things in which morals arise from in the first place, and is the one level that every human being is connected within. Outside of that level, things get split up, comparisons are made, and people begin picking "sides" as to what is "right" and "wrong", and trying to objectify things on this level.

Alas, it's not an easy notion (the existential model of the playing field) to get one's understanding into without spending a lot of time learning how to shed layers and layers of perceptual illusions from, and even after a life time, you never truly shed them, you just become free of slavery to it. For people who aren't "there" yet, any mention of this model is just a bunch of non-sense, and many of the obstacles to getting to that point can make one feel very discouraged that its even worth it.

So as a result, you have a temple with plenty of people who are operating their path on a quite conventional moral level, where they are right, others are wrong, there are Jedi and non-Jedi, and everything is just a familiar and typical as any other system of belief or philosophy.

Zero_storm wrote: ...no more! I know who I am, and why I am that way. And more so, what I BELIEVE I need to do to better myself and positively affect the world around me.That's what's important!

Yeah! Be the best, most genuine you you can be!

Proteus, you put into words something I couldn't even begin too. Thank you.

My point exactly if they want to believe they are an incarnation of something that resonates in their very heart beat: their existential pulse... then so be it... I would not stop the Darth maul from breathing... and I certainly would not restrict the Vilma De Booma from surviving after so long... Baress offee may be locked up but her needs will always be the same.... good tobacco and something creative to focus on... I have not heard from Bruce Lee... but I assume he is doing well... Apart from that the Sunrider crew are all well and happy with their current incarnations without the need for superfluous role play masquerades into a galaxy of their own making... The twist is all the same... drink it dry or iced... my martini is shaken not stirred...

I have heard from a handful of Jedi brothers and sisters that they feel drained after coming to the temple. Reason being lots of negative energy. This is touchy but many beliefs and opinions i feel are part of the cause. Also beliefs can be dangerous as we humans feel the need to protect such beliefs. Causing attachment. Instead promote encouragement, truth, and understanding.

Glenn wrote: I have heard from a handful of Jedi brothers and sisters that they feel drained after coming to the temple. Reason being lots of negative energy. This is touchy but many beliefs and opinions i feel are part of the cause. Also beliefs can be dangerous as we humans feel the need to protect such beliefs. Causing attachment. Instead promote encouragement, truth, and understanding.

I can understand that. But at the same time... who creates the topics? It's not the responsibility of the world to create positive experiences. It is our freedom, and how we use it, that create these experiences for ourselves and each other. So I understand the feeling but at the same time, not the practice.

I can complain that we're tearing down too many trees but am I not willing to donate to plant one? If the people who want more positivity aren't starting positive threads, do they really want it? Or are they just making excuses? TOTJO's leadership can only do so much. The rest is up to us.

And there has been a subdivision of the boards precisely to clearer segregate the areas where one ought expect an exchange of different ideas.

That being said, I for one have difficulty appreciating what a pursuit of understanding is supposed to be, if it does not involve speaking and listening to people with different perspectives and positions from one's own. To me, someone who finds that there is too much difference between us, is, with all due respect, not someone whom I see as one who is looking to learn. We can coexist with those, in my opinion. There have, as you are reporting, been sentiments against how many threads end up with interesting or at least passionate discussions, as they are too "negative" in the opinions of some. Meanwhile I can't recall anyone ever saying that some of the more one-dimensional threads like the ones only linking music, or quotes, or poems, or workout progression, are in anyone's way. Ironically, the "negative" ... let's call it "side" for lack of a better word... seems to be the one more happy to coexist, whilst the quest for "positivity" is the one that presumably brought the recent re-structuring, and not even to the "positivity"-crowd's satisfaction, if this thread's revival post is anything to go by. :silly:

Understanding is listening to different views. And why would we put people down? Why wouldn't we try and be truthful. Its part of the Jedi code. As far as I can see your just trying to argue with me Gisteron. Yes I'm calling you out. You have put forth no solutions. At least I did. What solutions you got.