IP Q and A

Should, perhaps, a fourth part to Lesson 0 be added to get Novice's to post the dictionary definition, as well as their understanding of plagiarism and how to avoid it?

All of this could be new to people who are some way through their IP Kit... How do we go about fixing things? Do we just wait to the end of the IP?

Twigga wrote: All of this could be new to people who are some way through their IP Kit... How do we go about fixing things? Do we just wait to the end of the IP?

Arisaig wrote: Should, perhaps, a fourth part to Lesson 0 be added to get Novice's to post the dictionary definition, as well as their understanding of plagiarism and how to avoid it?

It'll go somewhere like that Ari. Once I get it written (should be this week) I'll put it up to the Edu department and we'll decide where to stick it. It'll either be an early lesson with a reminder before the 'esssay' portions (I'm pretty sure that's where the self research comes in first) or put up as a reference and linked in the IP. I feel like a lesson would be best IMO. That way we can point back to their journal entry and say "Hey, remember what you saw here? yeah let's do that"

That's also probably a good place to put the consequences too.

The consequences? What might they be?

Twigga wrote: The consequences? What might they be?

Honestly, we're re-working them. I've come to discover that when I wrote them, I was a little too harsh and too black-and-white with it. They were originally written when I was finding journals where Novices would look up old journals and copy-paste them and it royally ticked me off (honestly I had them even harsher but Alex softened it in a few places). Although it was funny once when a Knight went to review a journal and found some rather familiar words (the Novice had copied the Knight's own journal)

Now I'm going to say this will probably change (it will if I have any say but it needs voting) but here's the process right now.

The IP Team searches for plagiarism in each journal, I don’t think that the Knights also need to, but they can if they feel they need to.

-Once a Novice is discovered to have plagiarized, the IP Team notifies the IP Team Lead, and assigns the Novice to the Lead.

-The Lead will post details in the Admin Forums about the plagiarism, a link to their journal, and the one they copied (or website). This is for Temple records in case the Novice does it again.

-The Lead will soft delete the Novice’s Journal editing the first post with a note in the first line "Locked for plagiarism -(name)". This is so they cannot go back and plagiarize their own plagiarism.

-No other record or announcement is needed. This will be to ensure the Novice has a legitimate second-chance and Knights are not biased when looking for potential apprentices.

-The Lead will hold a conversation with the Novice, asking them why they had plagiarized, explain why it is not tolerated, and what they now need to do. This should be a conversation and not a dressing-down.

-The Novice will then be required to start the IP from the beginning, no matter how far in they’d gotten or how much they had plagiarized by opening a new journal and starting at Lesson 0

- If the Novice plagiarizes a second time, they are banned from training at TotJO (not banned from the forums)

I had written this with the idea that anyone plagiarizing was doing it as an intentional means to skip out on the work. Not that someone might not understand what plagiarism was or how to properly cite their work. I'm not sure how the rules will be changed, or if putting the plagiarism/citation lesson in the IP will mitigate needing to change them. I am open to hearing ideas though (in PM or another thread so we don't draw this one off course)

One of the other things you mentioned was the 60 day limit. If I'd finished in fewer than 60 days, should I wait before submitting my journal, since the checking process does seem to take a while, Or should I wait, because I won't be granted the rank of Initiate before the 60 days are up anyway; and I might think of something relevant to add in the mean time?

Twigga wrote: One of the other things you mentioned was the 60 day limit. If I'd finished in fewer than 60 days, should I wait before submitting my journal, since the checking process does seem to take a while, Or should I wait, because I won't be granted the rank of Initiate before the 60 days are up anyway; and I might think of something relevant to add in the mean time?

Up to you but you might as well get it submitted, you just won't be granted the Initiate rank until the 60 day mark. (I might be wrong though I haven't been involved with IP and ranks in a while)

Thanks Kit - I think that's every conceivable question I could think of in response to your third post in this thread! Thank you so much for your patience, clarity, and honesty! I think this thread is a great resource, and I know I'll be referring to it in future. Many thanks!

Sometimes journals "disappear". Unfortunately this has occurred twice when I have been planning on writing about them in my own IP journal. I've also heard that some people bring their IP journal with them for their apprenticeship studies, so it is no longer visible... Is that true? What other reasons might there be for a journal disappearing, and how should I go about making enquiries as to what's happened?

Yes, when an Apprentice starts their studies they have the option of moving their journal into the Apprentice Chambers, making it invisible to the general membership. Some opt to just start a new journal, really down to the personal choice.

If you ever have questions of that nature, about things disappearing, you can always ask the person who owns the journal, and if they're surprised by the news their journal is gone, well, they can go and ask the admins.

Arisaig wrote: Yes, when an Apprentice starts their studies they have the option of moving their journal into the Apprentice Chambers

Interesting! I had no idea about this. Is it possible that this could be included in the FAQs somewhere, since I think I have just changed my ideas, again, about how to structure my journal.

Thanks for your comment on "stuff disappearing" I think I must have been unfortunate twice, as in both my cases the person was not contactable. I suppose my concerns are more related to how and why journals might go "missing" at all, with the exception of this plagiarism rule.

Twigga wrote: I must have been unfortunate twice, as in both my cases the person was not contactable. I suppose my concerns are more related to how and why journals might go "missing" at all, with the exception of this plagiarism rule.

That's weird. With the exception of the plagiarism rule, the only reason I'm aware of for a journal disappearing is if the person in question has moved it to the Apprentice Forum. Unless the member in question had asked for their account to be deleted maybe? Not sure.

Twigga wrote: Interesting! I had no idea about this. Is it possible that this could be included in the FAQs somewhere, since I think I have just changed my ideas, again, about how to structure my journal.

Yeah, its entirely up to the apprentice in question as to what they decide to do with their Journal. I can understand wanting to keep a history of all your studies through to knighthood in one thread as it can be pretty cool to show your progression, though I personally think IP Journals should be kept in the public Forum, to remove it is to remove a possible source that maybe of use to someone else going through the IP.

Sometimes people leave and request their journal to be moved from public view. But this is very rare, very very rare.
Twigga, while there are some information one needs in the IP, not every little detail can go into the introduction of the IP or into the FAQ. It would be too much information and no one would read it. As it is, some informations that are asked (not here) are answered in those places...

Hey all, due to life yours truly is taking over the IP team. Hopefully we'll be expanding our role and providing you guys with more support and content!

If you haven't already, please check out the unofficial temple Discord

Feel free to continue posting questions you may have here or pm me

Cheers!

Hey, just a quick reminder for you IP sorts of people that this exists for you!

Also everyone who's done the IP, I'd love to have you join the IP team. Please PM me and check out the IP team Chambers

Been trying to get back into the IP team for a while, seems my messages get lost somewhere. Any chance I can join back up?

Who is handling membership affairs during this interregnum - for people completing their first lesson in the IP looking to gain Novice status?

In the IP intro Br.John is linked for rank changes. Alternatively you can contact JL Spinner
https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/initiateprogramme/1875-following-instructions

Ah awesome. And for new members with questions about the application form, should they be directed to Br. John?

And, might it be nice if there was a forum section for formal council announcements such as "x has changed to y"? I mean, changes to the FAQs don't actually show up anywhere on the forums - at least not for mere mortal novices, I dunno about knighty/apprenticey types... so a lot of us just assume they stay the same as they were when we read them donkeys ago... and because all of your hard work in council is hidden behind a million layers of mystery we can't actually see it, to say "well done" or " Thank You " in any meaningful way.

We all have a lot to be grateful for - and yet it is all so very... vague. I know it is not intended, but the outcome of EVERY council action being hidden, even the completely benign ones, is that I actually have very little grasp on what it is that Councillors do other than knit hats. (Reference: Adhara, Personal communication, AJAX yesterday - I hope it is going well )

Please do not take this as any sort of criticism. It would be hard to find a bigger fan. I am just baffled by why changes like these wouldn't be more widely publicized so we can all help direct newcomers and novices in the right places rather than be feeding them outdated and false information. I think this kind of completely harmless and boring non controversial information should just be put somewhere on a locked thread of unoriginality. These are simple facts being shared after all - and it could help us to help ourselves to help each other. There is nothing to fear.