Myths?

Thanks for all of your responses

Well some people pointed to movies, and some to religious myths... indeed Campbell was for some years ago, but in his age, both these kind of myths existed, so why did he said "The world today is a world without myths", while he knew those kind of myths existed?

If I want to rephrase what I said, it would be "Why Joseph Campbell didn't believe these Movies and religious stories aren't myths that today's world need?"

@Phortis Nespin

Pretty much everything you said was spot on. I'm impressed! The only thing that I'd like to clear up is that humans dont think that "higher brain function is a superior trait", only our culture thinks that.

There are humans that think of them selves to be on par with all other life forms. This is because the are completely reliant on other forms of life. Our culture likes to teach us that we are exempt from the laws of life.

I guess thats the biggest myth of all... Our cultures myth.

@Sajjad

Thank you for opening a discussion like this.

Because he needed to feel like his job had more meaning than it actually did? J/K.

I don't know. The funny thing is, almost a decade after Campbell's death we began really looking at Goblekli Tepe and discovered that this was the first site (that we have found thus far) which shows our placing ourselves above animals came much later than Campbell's research proposed (not his fault, of course, he didn't have access to Goblekli Tepe). Campbell believes it is recent, but now our findings are that it dates back to about 11,000 BCE.

I believe that Campbell's real aim in making the statement that there are no myths anymore was to point out that we do not pay attention to the myths we are given anymore-and in a sense have lost all meaning to the myth, making the ones in existence obsolete. If you think about it, even the real life myths of heroes are pushed to the wayside and you are told to become your own person. As individuals you have to create your own myth, something which is unique- never looking at others for inspiration. It's entirely inside of you. But that's not the case, we build off of others to create our own personal story. Without the inspiration of others, you may never truly live out your story line to it's best conclusion, instead you will find yourself running in circles trying to find the right road.

Anyways, Campbell aside, look at the animal kingdom- when a lion is in his own environment completely separate from humans, do you think he is any different from us? He (on some level, it may not be cognitively) acknowledges he is at the top of the food chain, and therefore superior to all other animals around him.

Alethea Thompson:

Thanks for your great response

you said "We do not pay attention to myths anymore," why? And why Campbell believed it was important to pay attention to myths? (anyone who know the answers, give them please )

The definition of myth I use: myth is a, “traditional narration which relates to events that happened at the beginning of time and which has the purpose of providing grounds for the ritual actions of men of today and, in a general manner, establishing all the forms of action and thought by which man understands himself in his world.” (Paul Ricoeur, The Symbolism of Evil, p. 5 ff)

Myth is the narrative embodiment of an idea. The narrative places the experience of man in a whole and so human experience receives orientation and meaning from the narration, thus, an understanding of human reality as a whole operates through the myths by means of reminiscence and expectation. Myth narrates a sacred history; it relates an event in primordial time; it tells how reality came into existence. Myth can be known, experienced, lived in the sense that one is seized by the sacred in the re-enactment the primordial, sacred event. In this way, myth is the symbolic expression of primal experiences. It is a narrative account of the origin of the symbol which represents a primary aspect of experienced reality. Myth can include reference to historic personages and events, nevertheless, there is no discernible correlation between the factual elements of history and the functioning adequacy of a myth. The truth, validity, or effectiveness of a myth is determined solely by those who participate in the ritual re-enactment of myth. True myth is not philosophical allegory as in Hesiod`s cosmogony. Robert Graves says that myth is not an explanation, satire, parody, sentimental fable, embroidered history, minstrel romance, political propaganda, moral legend, humorous anecdote, theatrical melodrama, heroic saga or realistic fiction. Finally, contrary to popular understanding, not every film narrates a myth, myth is not opposed to ‘fact’, nor is a every fiction novel myth.

Alan:

Thanks for definition of myth, and some explanation about it, but

Can you answer any of those question? I couldn't get answer of any those question from what you told.

"What I want for you in this thread is, to think about your creation myth, think why it reach to an end that make us believe that we are on planet earth to control other creatures lives, and why we think we are superior than others. and of course, post it here."

My creation myth? What if I don't have one? Zen doesn't dwell on it. Nor does Jedi... Well, Lord of the Rings does... but... hahah.

RiddleNox:

If you don't have a creation myth, then you can answer other questions I asked here

-If I want to rephrase what I said, it would be "Why Joseph Campbell didn't believe these Movies and religious stories aren't myths that today's world need?"

-"We do not pay attention to myths anymore," why? And why Campbell believed it was important to pay attention to myths?

-If I want to rephrase what I said, it would be "Why Joseph Campbell didn't believe these Movies and religious stories aren't myths that today's world need?"

Because today's world doesn't need myths. It needs to destroy consumerism and enact compassion. That will only happen when we're all dead. The stories in the movies are fantastic and are great myths, but their MEDIUM itself contributes to the collective dumbing down of society and the end of our intelligent generation while we allow technology to overcome us.

-"We do not pay attention to myths anymore," why? And why Campbell believed it was important to pay attention to myths?

Because the pretty lights are more interesting.

We believe ourselves Gods at night in our beds... not servants of Gods. And, as such, movies make our dreams real. We project these ideas into them. Television is much the same.

RiddleNox:

"If you are wondering what a world without myths is... Read NY times!" - Joseph Campbell

Today's world, need myths, but it lack myths, although it have a lot of it, none of them seems to work.

You said today's world doesn't need myth, then why are we creating them? The big bang theory is a myth itself, unless you look from scientist POV.

We don't need myths, and we are making one, daily. Why people go to university, study chemistry, biology, physics....? Don't you think the story that tell us "An atom is made from 3 different things, electron, proton, notron(not sure how you write this one), and these gather together and form an atom which........." is a myth itself?

If we don't need myth, why we create them?

Monotheists and many other people not only practice their myths in ritual but their myths are the 'reality glasses' through which they experience, organize and make sense of the world. Some evolutionary biologists theorize that myth is one of the cognitive adaptations by which human beings create order from the overwhelming, constant, and varied perception of the environment. I agree, to be human is to 'think' mythically. But even as myth is expressed in religious practice, it also inhabits secular assumptions as metaphor-without-mythic-narrative and perform the same cognitive function as myth in how we organize our perceptions. These non-mythic metaphors include: balance, harmony, energy, and self/ego, and many others.

Why don't we pay attention to myths anymore?....good question....I do pay attention to myths and legends because I believe that every one of them is based on some fundamental truth, some actuality that was at one time unexplained...

I think most younger people don't pay attention because all the "magic" has gone from the world...all the unexplained that they would have experienced is now google friendly...

If we don't need myth, why we create them?

Because they're fun. And, a distraction from the real issues we have.

One reason myths were created was due to political climate. If the ruling party did not like to hear opposition, they would kill you. So stories were made and myths created to hide the truth in story/myth form.

As time has evolved along with mans knowledge, myth became an outdated form of communication. We now just lie!

All this sounds well and good...

And everyone is definitely entitled to their opinions....

For me, the stories, the myths, transfer a message... Sometimes knowledge, sometimes a lesson, sometimes, hope....

If the leaders didn't have an answer for everything, then what kind of leaders would they be?

People do not like weak leaders without answers...

If people ask how the world began, they can turn to the bible... (Sorry Christian brothers and sisters... Its a fictional myth for me, personally...) And, there are many stories of creation, pick one...

If I wanted the children to stay indoors, and not wander around at night, I might make up the myth of the boogeyman...

If I wanted to explain that "there is someone for everyone", I might share "Beauty and the Beast", or Cinderella", or in the newer myths, "Pretty Woman", lol....

And even with in a story, there could be smaller lessons, besides the main lesson...

Interesting thread! Clearly there are a number of different perspectives on this topic.

I'm of the opinion that while we can deny that myth is important, it nevertheless remains important. Even if we ignore our heritage of myths, and denigrate mythic stories as fairy tales whose best possible use is entertainment, there is a part of us deeper than the mechanistic thinker who gives voice to such a view who knows better.

That part speaks in our dreams, if we do not ignore them. It sings to us in music whose meaning touches our hearts, even if we cannot understand the language. It thrills at each hopeful suggestion in story or film that magic is real, even though we may never admit such a sentiment to anyone else. And it knows what myths mean, sometimes even with an immediate grasp of multiple layers of meaning that evades our rational thinking.

We can feel awe at Odin's sacrifice of an eye traded for wisdom. We are moved by both gratitude and inspiration at the sacrifice made by Prometheus to offer humanity fire. We are guided away from folly by the curse of King Midas - though we know these stories are symbolic. They represent our distant ancestors speaking to us of principles and virtues that will endure, long after the internet and DVD's are artifacts of history.

The nightly news may be more relevant to the business of the day, but it's ill equipped as a guide by which to steer one's life. Our myths are more likely to set us on the road to become heroes, healers, or saints.

If people ask how the world began, they can turn to the bible... (Sorry Christian brothers and sisters... Its a fictional myth for me, personally...) And, there are many stories of creation, pick one...

Oh dear... PICK ONE?

That sounds not so good.

I do like the rest of your post though haha

As sacred narratives, myths provided a cultural framework to interpret the relevant range of mystery. So what mystery remains for us now, and should pursuit of those questions be caged in terms of the sacred?

We are certainly less fearful now as our knowledge has driven the unknown to the furthest corners, deep beyond human awareness and perhaps even beyond possible human perception. Without fear, without duty, without responsibility a person can reduce fear to almost zero. Fear is a path to the darkside because in the absence of information about a potential threat the mind can have a tendency to become emotional. The easiest effort to counter these effects is to generate an opposite and more powerful unknown, such as a saviour myth.

I'm not sure if people still need modern myth's, but they are effective tools to engage with the mind to help walk your path.

Myths also tell stories of morality and embody the values of the culture. Norse mythology is filled with heroism and bravery and Christian mythology is filled with charity, good will, and really not screwing around if their God tells you to do something.

Maybe myths have changed. Communications have reached the point where we can have our own heroes and legends without them taking place in a fantasy. The valiance of the heroes of Wizna, the bravery of the 9/11 First Responders, the cunning of the Russian Army in WW2, the sexcapades of Mick Jagger and Charlie Sheen. Times have changed, but the basics remain the same.

Thanks for your great responses!

RyuJin: you said

because I believe that every one of them is based on some fundamental truth

indeed, every myth is based on a truth, and every truth is a myth itself, but we may know it as facts or theories - they are myth unless you be very careful about them, and look at it as scientists look.

RiddleNox: I hardly think myths are here to make us distracted from real life, maybe to show us a truth, which can not be proved, but to make us laugh... well, your opinion is honorable.

Phortis Nespin: Political myths... well that true. For changing an idea, or a vision (see master Daniel post's at same sub forum for more information) myths are the best way. A good example is heaven and hell, (they are myths indeed) name one person, who became Christian Muslim, or whatever Abrahamic religion, without being scared about these, and without thinking of reaching to Heaven.

You said that myth is out dated. You probably studied in school, and you probably had heard about life after death.... isn't that a myth? or you had probably heard about Electrons and Protons and Nutrons, joining together, forming atom, .... that is a myth itself! (unless you view it carefully as scientists do)

Jestor: Well, I agree with part that 'They deliver a massage' Also I agree that myths are a great way to 'control people's behavior'. great points!

Adder: You said :

I'm not sure if people still need modern myth's, but they are effective tools to engage with the mind to help walk your path.

and the second sentence, "but they are effective tools to engage with the mind to help walk your path" is exactly why people still need myths!

Williamkaede: Indeed, I agree with you.

As our communities had changed, out myths are changed, without us noticing it.

If I want to name some new myths that we all know it would be : Super Man, Spider Man, Soldiers of World War II , Star Wars (hey , our religion is based on them!), Harry Potter, even Steve Jobs (who recently had been changed to a hero after his death! you know...), matrix, mafia, freemasonry (you may say they aren't myths... I agree, but story behind some of their groups had became a myth to many), Lost, big bang theory, and millions of other stories, that we know, most of them are not true, but they are somehow our new myths!

Why we have these? To sell more books and films and...? why would anyone paid to watch, hear, read these things?