Hellenic Pagan Jedi?

quote]

And you quit trying to tell people how to identify themselves...

You can debate the topic, via post or PM all you like...

But you have the right to your opinion, but not tell people they are wrong...

MAybe ask for clarification, and afterwards, you might agree with there self definition... Then again, you may not....[/quote]

Thank You!

We all have our own direction with our view of what is Jedi, or even remotely Jedi related. I don't believe young Sid truly meant offence. It is the nature of our community to be individual...

Sid appears to use shock and drama to get attention? He does seem to have mellowed out a bit. He certainly has a sharp and dynamic brain.

He has...

Now, lets keep this thread on topic..

Jestor wrote:

sidvkili wrote: please stop saying pagan... you're hellenic, you're a polytheist, you hold to a structured belief. You aren't pagan. The word meant not of said belief, just not. Not christian for christians. Not muslim for muslims or jew for jew. Kermetic etc etc.

You aren't saying anything when you say "pagan".

And you quit trying to tell people how to identify themselves...

You can debate the topic, via post or PM all you like...

But you have the right to your opinion, but not tell people they are wrong...

MAybe ask for clarification, and afterwards, you might agree with there self definition... Then again, you may not....

I wasn't refering to opinion or self understanding. I was refering to history and practice. I really like what Lykeios writes... hellenic shit is awesome.

The word pagan basically means "I'm an stupid murderer and rapist and I'm always wrong". Something seen in plenty of... ah screw it..

sidvkili wrote: The word pagan basically means "I'm an stupid murderer and rapist and I'm always wrong". Something seen in plenty of... ah screw it..

LOL please tell me you're joking.

Kamizu wrote:

sidvkili wrote: The word pagan basically means "I'm an stupid murderer and rapist and I'm always wrong". Something seen in plenty of... ah screw it..

LOL please tell me you're joking.

it's in hellenic writings for crying out loud. The quran and the bible associate the practice in a similar manner.

What people seem to think paganism is, it's polytheism or just spirituality lol. And I ain't getting into italic and kermetic roots right now but if you asked an italic of hellene what a pagan was or if they were pagan, they would probably tell you "nope".

Oh and I know you've done some research into paganism but you yourself said it was wicca.... and who am I to argue with such an obvious expert?

sidvkili wrote: it's in hellenic writings for crying out loud. The quran and the bible associate the practice in a similar manner.

What people seem to think paganism is, it's polytheism or just spirituality lol. And I ain't getting into italic and kermetic roots right now but if you asked an italic of hellene what a pagan was or if they were pagan, they would probably tell you "nope".

Oh and I know you've done some research into paganism but you yourself said it was wicca.... and who am I to argue with such an obvious expert?

I have found that other religions' views of religions not of their own to be quite unreliable. I'm hardly an expert LOL there's little I can claim as being an expert on, however I've been looking into both Wicca and and even more into Shamanism, both fall under the Pagan hierarchy. Just as in all other religions, people make up the body of Paganism. And when people do bad things and they are associated with a group, the whole group gets a bad name. I'm sure there were and are bad Pagans out there who practice the dark arts. Just as there are bad Christians who give Christianity a bad name. When Christianity tried to take over, they turned the word "Pagan" into a curse, and the word "Heathen" into 'non believer'. They also adapted many many Pagan holidays and traditions into Christianity to convert more people. So it's never a good idea to believe a religion from the word of another So far, I've found Paganism to be a worship of the life and the Force around you.

I know a few Pagans who worship Greek deities. Now what would make a person Hellenic, I have no idea. I just know it's associated with Greece.

But all that aside, there's nothing wrong with taking pieces of 'warring' religions, associating yourself with them, and holding close what you find sacred. It may be a little bit of an oxymoron title but it is what it is!

Jestor wrote: He has...

Now, lets keep this thread on topic..

Sorry! I missed this....shutting up :silly:

Kamizu wrote:

sidvkili wrote: it's in hellenic writings for crying out loud. The quran and the bible associate the practice in a similar manner.

What people seem to think paganism is, it's polytheism or just spirituality lol. And I ain't getting into italic and kermetic roots right now but if you asked an italic of hellene what a pagan was or if they were pagan, they would probably tell you "nope".

Oh and I know you've done some research into paganism but you yourself said it was wicca.... and who am I to argue with such an obvious expert?

I have found that other religions' views of religions not of their own to be quite unreliable. I'm hardly an expert LOL there's little I can claim as being an expert on, however I've been looking into both Wicca and and even more into Shamanism, both fall under the Pagan hierarchy. Just as in all other religions, people make up the body of Paganism. And when people do bad things and they are associated with a group, the whole group gets a bad name. I'm sure there were and are bad Pagans out there who practice the dark arts. Just as there are bad Christians who give Christianity a bad name. When Christianity tried to take over, they turned the word "Pagan" into a curse, and the word "Heathen" into 'non believer'. They also adapted many many Pagan holidays and traditions into Christianity to convert more people. So it's never a good idea to believe a religion from the word of another So far, I've found Paganism to be a worship of the life and the Force around you.

I know a few Pagans who worship Greek deities. Now what would make a person Hellenic, I have no idea. I just know it's associated with Greece.

But all that aside, there's nothing wrong with taking pieces of 'warring' religions, associating yourself with them, and holding close what you find sacred. It may be a little bit of an oxymoron title but it is what it is!

this is usually the common view but pagan was a curse before christianity lol. Again it's in both hebrew and hellenic writings.

Paganism isn't the worship of life. Paganism isn't the sacred reverence of a greek tradition, egyptian, roman etc etc.
Paganism is not that.. It isn't nothing per se ( it has something) but it's not hellenic or Kermetic. It's just "not"...

When I said the line on rapists it was a joke yes lol. that was the view of the hebrews and persians on what they deemed "pagan". To make it a tad bit softer, pagan meant "stranger".

Oh an there is no pagan body. My point is paganism is different to anything people here seem to associate themselves with.

The only "religion" that can make a claim "we're pagan" is wicca.....and... well yeah... wicca

https://soundcloud.com/jayden-daniels/follow-your-bliss

sidvkili wrote:

Kamizu wrote:

sidvkili wrote: The word pagan basically means "I'm an stupid murderer and rapist and I'm always wrong". Something seen in plenty of... ah screw it..

LOL please tell me you're joking.

it's in hellenic writings for crying out loud. The quran and the bible associate the practice in a similar manner.

What people seem to think paganism is, it's polytheism or just spirituality lol. And I ain't getting into italic and kermetic roots right now but if you asked an italic of hellene what a pagan was or if they were pagan, they would probably tell you "nope".

Oh and I know you've done some research into paganism but you yourself said it was wicca.... and who am I to argue with such an obvious expert?

Nah...in the ancient Greek sense (not specifically that of the "Hellenic" period after or during Alexandros of Makedon's rule) of the word "paganos" it just means a somewhat backwards country/rural bumpkin that is content to remain out in the boonies as long as he and his family can keep their farmlands and be left in peace.

It didn't become a serious insult (as far as I am aware from my own studies) until the Romans made it such and really not until the Christians took control and started subjugating and stamping out the old ways that threatened Roman control in general. Constantine's conversion condemned polytheists in general to centuries and millenia of bloodshed and hate crimes and genocides.

I think the word you're more thinking of is "heathen." Heathen is a more northern and Roman Catholic word as I understand it.

So, to sum up: I can't abide the bullshit pussy footing around the word "pagan" because I am NOT a neopagan. I am a Hellenic Polytheistic Reconstructionist. Since that is more than I am willing to say in general conversation using a mobile device for a communications medium...I keep it simple and say Hellenic pagan or that I believe in and practice Hellenismos.

AFAIK, rural worshippers who took Zeus and Hera as their main household deities were just as much "pagan" as those that romped around naked with Dionysos and Pan under the New Moon to general city-dwelling Greeks. I think the connotation was more of "you crazy backwards redneck" than anything very deeply sinister or demeaning.

*shrug* I could be wrong...and I understand why the word is such a button pusher for many modern non-Abrahamics...but I respectfully disagree and choose to identify by that label in a general sense. If it causes some people that don't understand yhe origins of the word to misunderstand...well, those kind of people probably aren't going to really understand my religious beliefs much anyway.

NOTE: This is all from a Greek standpoint. I know much less about the Hebrew, Egyptian, and Persian attitude toward or use of the word.

no... it comes from latin roots... hellenic writings adopted paganos yes but it was in similar context. The " peasant" was in context of a servant or stranger. The threat was of origin in western development usually through the pauline works. But in Rome and Greece when somebody was refered to as a pagan their beliefs were also looked down upon too.


Also it wasn't the christians who started killing pagans, it was technically pagans and paulines ( who were christian... technically but had in all reality had less of a voice than marcionites)


Also to go further with your logic. You identify because people associate pagan with hellenic beliefs. Wicca suffered a similar problem with satanism. Wiccans were... actually I'm not gonna go there.... lol

point is they didn't accept being grouped with satanism. Which actually helped establish their ground. Wouldn't that benefit hellenes the same way?

Definition of Paganism:

Paganism is not a single religion, but an umbrella term for all those religions other than the Abrahamic faiths of Christianity, Judaism and Islam. A Pagan is a person who follows one of those other faiths. Many Witches, Wiccans, Reconstructionists, and other Neo-Pagans simply identify themselves as Pagan or Neo-pagans when talking with others who may not be familiar with the complexity of the different belief systems.

This can make it sound like "Paganism" is a religion instead of a collection of religions. Neo-paganism should also not be confused with the "New Age" movement, as Pagans are almost exclusively involved in distinctive religions while New Age spirituality draws from many sources and esoteric spiritual techniques which are generally added as an extra layer on top of whatever religion one normally follows.

Edit: So what I am saying is that Lykeios you are a Pagan. Question I have is does Jediism fall under Pagan or New Age. That's a hard one to answer. I'm leaning towards New Age. I can't really say the Jedi worship the Force or can I? And I would imagine the Jedi do not view The Force as a God but more an energy.

Jayden wrote: Definition of Paganism:

Paganism is not a single religion, but an umbrella term for all those religions other than the Abrahamic faiths of Christianity, Judaism and Islam. A Pagan is a person who follows one of those other faiths. Many Witches, Wiccans, Reconstructionists, and other Neo-Pagans simply identify themselves as Pagan or Neo-pagans when talking with others who may not be familiar with the complexity of the different belief systems.

This can make it sound like "Paganism" is a religion instead of a collection of religions. Neo-paganism should also not be confused with the "New Age" movement, as Pagans are almost exclusively involved in distinctive religions while New Age spirituality draws from many sources and esoteric spiritual techniques which are generally added as an extra layer on top of whatever religion one normally follows.

paganism is not every religion but... it's just not of christianity, judaism zoroastrianism etc etc. Not everything but... but not of"..." religion. It is an umbrella containing all religions yet none ( sounds philosophical I know)

here's a context, I say what do you want to drink?
" not coffee"

technically this contains every drink asides coffee, but it's not really saying anything because the same situation could say " not soda" or " not tea" . This is how " pagan" translates in religion... you aren't putting religions under an umbrella, making a claim or anything else... you aren't saying anything at all.

Pagan:

A somewhat vague term derived from from the Latin word paganus. Pagan is a term which refers to a variety of different religions ranging from Wicca, to that of ancient Egypt and even Hinduism, among many others. Some Pagans are of no specific religion, but rather are eclectic. In general Pagan religions have more than one deity, or many gods which are aspects of one (an idea similar to that of the Christian trinity). Another quite common feature of Pagan religions are that they tend to be nature oriented. Pagan can also be used as a derogatory word for any non-Judeo/Christian/Islamic religion.

That's from the dictionary Sidvkili. It reads Pagan is a term which refers to a variety of different ***religions*** . But I guess it is a possible the dictionary is wrong. Ha!ha! Notice how I accentuated religions.

Jayden wrote: Pagan:

A somewhat vague term derived from from the Latin word paganus. Pagan is a term which refers to a variety of different religions ranging from Wicca, to that of ancient Egypt and even Hinduism, among many others. Some Pagans are of no specific religion, but rather are eclectic. In general Pagan religions have more than one deity, or many gods which are aspects of one (an idea similar to that of the Christian trinity). Another quite common feature of Pagan religions are that they tend to be nature oriented. Pagan can also be used as a derogatory word for any non-Judeo/Christian/Islamic religion.

That's from the dictionary Sidvkili. It reads Pagan is a term which refers to a variety of different ***religions*** . But I guess it is a possible the dictionary is wrong. Ha!ha! Notice how I accentuated religions.

screw it... I'm too tired for this... I'll accept defeat from an uncited dictionary. Had it from less lol

Lykeios wrote: Am I the only one hereabouts? I'm a Hellenic Polytheist reconstructionist but would be interested to find any Hellenic pagan Jedi (recon or not). I see a lot of more eclectic and "earth-based" traditions around but not many obvious Hellenes.

I feel that Hellenismos, especially in re: Greek philosophy, meshes very coherently with Jediism and would love to hear opinions on the subject! Even if you are not Hellenic, I'd be happy to hear from you!

I thought this was an interesting topic and hopefully we could get back on track. Mixing Hellenistic Paganism with Jediism.

Has anyone had any success with this in their own personal path? How do you view the Force within the tradition and culture of Hellenisnos? Do you see it as something from the Gods are something that is beyond, within, and of the Gods? Or something else all together?

That is one of the benifits of Jeddism, it's compatible with many alternative faiths. I usually try not to mix the two, (unless i am performing Magick) as I am Capricorn and everything is either left brain or right brain compartmentalized. My beliefs in regards to the Force are logic based, I work with energy and have conducted experiments that have led me to the conclusion it does in fact exist. My Paganistic beliefs stem from my creative side, and it is from Paganism I have found that much alluded balance in my life. I follow both because there is inherent value in both within my life...

An excellent question. One close to my heart.

Joseph Campbell's insightful discussion of the symbolism of Greek myth in The Hero With A Thousand Faces presents the case for a syncretic Jediism (Jediism blended with other myths and religious symbols). In his analysis of how the ancient Greeks expressed the monomyth, of particular interest is his discussion of the myth of the Minotaur and related aspects found in the myths of Pasiphae, Theseus, Daedalus, and the labyrinth.

While the monomyth is a helpful structure by which to analyze aspects of plot and archetype, I do not believe the only key to understanding myth is found in a Freudian interpretation. Each mythic culture should be understood on its own terms. That there are so many variations on the monomyth is what is most interesting. What is unique to the Greeks, that is, how they formulate the monomyth is of greater interest to me than reducing it (and all myth) to the psychological processes of maturation. Greek myth is not uniform. Local variations, when not be overlooked, add to richer appreciation of the diversity of their mythic worldview.