Is anything not a metaphor?

BOOM....

My head exploded ......

Metaphor-ception....

I haven't reached the alan watts books yet, but anyway...

Also, this might be a little off-topic.

Proteus wrote: My way of thinking, is that the "Force" is the energy or "happening" of all things. The actual idea of "Force" is not that of a thing but of a process of action, of flow, of "being", since even the word "be" is a verb and not a noun (at least in English). To "be" is a happening of itself, and whatever something is "being", to me, seems to form what I am seeing as the metaphor.

Perhaps to say that this way of thinking is incorrect may be to say that thinking of "the Force", and all it entails: the flow of things, the universe as a system and a process, is also incorrect, since what I'm explaining mirrors this if you think about it.

I know that this way of thinking may not exactly the be the most conventional, but is it incorrect? And is it really unfair?

Well, i agree here. I'm no expert in quantum physics, but as far as i know, even still matter, with no movement at all, is just the effect of movement. Depending on the frequency or direction of this flowing energy, we get different form of matter, such as neutrons and protons and electrons. So everything there is, and ever will be will be because there is movement.

And there is more: Movement is the cause of life at all. If there was no gravitational pull from the centres of our galaxies, no gases could be compressed enough to form stars, and, therefore, us.

So what is death, then? Stillness? because even if we die, we just move somewhere else, and the percussions of our deeds and words will someday reach the farthest edges of the universe.

So yeah, you could see the the saying "force" as a metaphor for a lot of things. Life, god, movement, flow, take your pick.

Okay ... I was just being silly earlier, right before heading home from conservatoire.

In some sense, saying that everything is a metaphor is like calling the pen a metaphor, writing with it and calling that a metaphor, saying that the perception/observation of writing with it is a metaphor and then making the whole experience a metaphor ...

... but what is it the metaphor of ? Even the metaphor is just a textual/lexical element.

It seems that ren got in a good word from an empiricist (Hume) perspective. Then there is also the phenomena/noumena slant of Kant. Watts would say that "it's just what it is" and that "nothing is like we perceive it 'out there'".

So, as I see it, everyone is as right as they can be for the moment about this. Good topic, Proteus ...

Wooo, this discussion is getting me pumped!

I suppose if energy can be projected as a wave and a particle at the same time, it stands to reason that something can be a symbol and a metaphor and an oreo cookie all at the same time, even collapsing the scope of that set of parallel existences into one of those things that excludes the others until it decides to be both one of those things exclusively and all of those things at the same time.

Akkarin wrote: Proteus, I am not discussing whether your views are right or wrong, I'm merely questioning why some aspect of a world-view that encompasses everything could be wrong

The question shouldn't be about the aspect of the view but the view itself. It shouldn't be "Can something not be a metaphor with this view?" but rather "Can everything be viewed as a metaphor?"

Does that make sense?

Ahh, I see what you're saying.

Well, the reason why I questioned it the way that I did is because the more I thought about it, the more it seemed that everything I could think of WAS a metaphor in one way or another, and so turned me around to question if everything Really IS a metaphor, or if it just seems that way - by asking if there is even one thing that ISN'T. If there was one thing that can't be, then it would possibly falsify the idea. I figured it could make the topic even more interesting than just shooting strait onto "everything is a metaphor". But even approaching it in the direction of all that is a metaphor could give us the same conclusion I suppose.

Alexandre Orion wrote: ... but what is it the metaphor of ? Even the metaphor is just a textual/lexical element.

This also went through my mind, the idea of even the thing a metaphor represents is also a metaphor, like a mirror reflecting an opposing mirror forever? And so, is there even a single actual thing that the metaphors stop at? I don't see it. :ohmy:

:silly:

Yes! One should reflect on the mirrored mirror analogy when considering everything! This conversation has aided me in puncturing another restrictive membrane of my universe . . . the mirrored mirror is the perfect visual for the infinity of the self/universe!

Look at a pencil...

Remove the word "pencil"...

Now, remove the observer....

What you have left "is"....

And is not a metaphor for anything....

That's a good one, Jestor. It's a stabilizing thought.

In Bareus' thread on "Heaven, Hell and Reincarnation" there was an interesting sub-discussion going on regarding metaphor. I was pondering starting a new thread and then found this one from a couple of years ago (any coincidence that it was my Teaching Master who started it? )

Gisteron wrote:

The world doesn't work on metaphors and analogies the way people do.

Bareus wrote:

The world does not work on metaphors no, neither do we

The world may not work on (or through) metaphor but ALL our typical experience of the world (universe) is metaphor, is it not? Art and language are quite obviously metaphorical. It is less obvious with scientific or mathematic endeavours - but no less true. As Timothy Leary is quoted: "Science is all metaphor".
Alan Watts quotes Sir Arthur Eddington (the Quaker astronomer, physicist, mathematician who provided the first observational evidence to support Einstein's General theory) in The Book:
"We see the atoms with their girdles of circulating electrons darting hither and tither, colliding and rebounding. Free electrons torn from the girdles hurry away a hundred times faster, curving sharply round the atoms with side slips and hairbreadth escapes. X-rays impinge on the atoms and toss the electrons into higher orbits. We see these electrons falling back again, sometimes by steps, sometimes with a rush, caught in a cul-de-sac of metastability, hesitating before “forbidden passages".
Behind it all the quantum 'h' regulates each change with mathematical precision….The spectacle is so fascinating that we have perhaps forgotten that there was a time when we wanted to be told what an electron is. The question was never answered. No familiar conceptions can be woven around the electron; it belongs to the waiting list. Similarly the description of the processes must be taken with a grain of salt…
Something unknown is doing we don’t know what – that is what our theory amounts to.

Is it not the case that humans typically 'work' through metaphor - even though we normally don't realise it? Indeed isn't this state of affairs so pervasive that Lao Tzu tackles precisely this topic in chapter 1 of the Tao Te Ching?

The world (universe) itself may or may not be a metaphor but all our human ideas and conceptualisations are. But that’s just my opinion. I found the above thread really helpful but if others have different ideas I'd be keen to hear them!

The world (universe) itself may or may not be a metaphor but all our human ideas and conceptualisations are

So, what is a plane, a car, a computer, a T.V. etc,etc a metaphor for?

These were all at one time human ideas and conceptualizations.

They were not metaphors for anything however.