On War & Religion

Whyte Horse wrote: Got it too . But there is a much more sinister motivation behind religious extremism. The people who control the religious extremists don't care about religion at all. They aren't even religious.

This basically sums up my feelings on the matter too. The world is full of people who interpret and twist religion and other ideals for their own gender.

Actually, here's another point:

Let's say I choose my schedules to keep one day of the week off, because my book tells me so, and let's say I don't eat pork, because my book tells me so. If you don't want the reference to sound as if it was a particular religion, let's mix it up a little and say I am not allowed to eat ham instead. Let's say I never enter a temple without a head dress, because my book tells me so, I'm circumcised because my book told my parents so, I observe a weekly ceremony because my book tells me so and I profess the holy Truth of my book to my peers because the book tells me so.

Now, if that's what I said, nobody would question my motives. Nobody would say that it is a matter of local climate or recent geopolitical history. But if I say that my book also tells me that I must not leave those wretched witches in peace, or that I must not ever befriend a non-believer, and that I am obliged to wage a holy war on them (specifically them and not just their non-belief) even in times when I or my peers doubt that I should, and I do, all of a sudden my faith has nothing to do with it and I completely misunderstand the text and I'm not true to my deity and the motivations for my action are completely absolved from the religion that motivates every other ritualistic nonsense I make myself follow every day.
Why is that?

Worth watching...

Gisteron wrote: But if I say that my book also tells me that I must not leave those wretched witches in peace, or that I must not ever befriend a non-believer, and that I am obliged to wage a holy war on them (specifically them and not just their non-belief) even in times when I or my peers doubt that I should, and I do, all of a sudden my faith has nothing to do with it and I completely misunderstand the text and I'm not true to my deity and the motivations for my action are completely absolved from the religion that motivates every other ritualistic nonsense I make myself follow every day.
Why is that?

If you're losing while you claim your deity's name, you don't have the favor of your deity. Perhaps it simply means you are an unbeliever at the core of your heart, and therefore your deity refuses to work with you even though you are doing as his/her book tells you.

Much like this (since I know this is specifically Abrahamic you're referencing, I'll go with Abrahamic tradition)

Abel and Cain each give their offerings to God. Both have done so, but Cain's offering is not received well. Both believed in God, both followed pretty much what He told them, but one did not have the sincerity of the other.

Seeing how Abrahamic deities in particular also can't handle iron chariots, success is not necessarily an indicator of faithfulness, nor does this have anything to do with the question I posed. I am pointing out the double standard in seeing everything largely harmless to humankind at large or personal as indubitably religious when claimed to be, but anything just as much claimed to be part of the same religion that we happen personally to find disagreeable as necessarily a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the same religion.
So if your text tells you to give thanks for the harvest, and you do just that, that is accurately following it, but if it tells you to rob the neighbor infidel village for their harvest this year, and you do just that, suddenly that is a complete misunderstanding?
Oh, and what, by the way, if you succeeded, rather than lost? Are you saying that God was on the colonists' side when they successfully slaughtered the natives of America or Australia? Certainly, by your standard, since the latter lost, God must not have been in support of their cause... Maybe God was first on Napoleon's side, when he conquered Germany and Italy, but after he had beseiged Moscow God changed his mind and supported the victorious Alexander instead? I take it the citizenry of Hiroshima or Nagasaki didn't have a God-approved cause either, did they?
Make no mistake, a majority of people throughout recorded history, warriors and leaders, civilians and slaves, were genuine believers in one form of religious nonsense or another. That may not have been their motivation all of the time or even most of the time, but if you are saying that defeat is a sign of a lack of divine support, you must make some ugly admissions about the unfortunate...

Gisteron wrote: Seeing how Abrahamic deities in particular also can't handle iron chariots, success is not necessarily an indicator of faithfulness, nor does this have anything to do with the question I posed. I am pointing out the double standard in seeing everything largely harmless to humankind at large or personal as indubitably religious when claimed to be, but anything just as much claimed to be part of the same religion that we happen personally to find disagreeable as necessarily a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the same religion.
So if your text tells you to give thanks for the harvest, and you do just that, that is accurately following it, but if it tells you to rob the neighbor infidel village for their harvest this year, and you do just that, suddenly that is a complete misunderstanding?
Oh, and what, by the way, if you succeeded, rather than lost? Are you saying that God was on the colonists' side when they successfully slaughtered the natives of America or Australia? Certainly, by your standard, since the latter lost, God must not have been in support of their cause... Maybe God was first on Napoleon's side, when he conquered Germany and Italy, but after he had beseiged Moscow God changed his mind and supported the victorious Alexander instead? I take it the citizenry of Hiroshima or Nagasaki didn't have a God-approved cause either, did they?
Make no mistake, a majority of people throughout recorded history, warriors and leaders, civilians and slaves, were genuine believers in one form of religious nonsense or another. That may not have been their motivation all of the time or even most of the time, but if you are saying that defeat is a sign of a lack of divine support, you must make some ugly admissions about the unfortunate...

But it has everything to do with what you're asking- because of the thought process religious people have.

Now that said, although I am Christian, I do believe that God does not get involved in all of the affairs of people. Those that are unfortunate are not unfortunate due to God bringing it upon them. God does not always meddle in the affairs of others. But if you are doing something on behalf of a God(dess), because He/She has told you to do so- then it will be sanctioned by them.

I don't believe the story of Job either. He had a lot of bad luck, whoever tells the story is trying to make it look like God sanctioned the bad luck. If Job is a real person in history, I don't believe that God had anything to do with his string of bad luck. If it is a myth told by a storyteller to try and make people feel better about what happens to them- it's clever. But still just a myth about how your faith can keep you alive in God's eyes.

So what do I think of those that got a bad card in life? I think that God has nothing to do with their situation. God didn't put them there, cause and effect of choices (not necessarily the individual on the street's choice, but the choices of everyone around them is to be included in understanding their situations). We are given free will, if you think that God has something to do with everything, you eliminate free will.

The key here isn't JUST success. The point is where is God in it? Either He is in it, or he's not. If you are doing things in His name, and you're not winning- then He doesn't have your back. If you are winning, he MIGHT have your back, or you might just be that good.

It also does not mean that God has anything to do with the people that are overpowering you. He has simply decided to leave it to our own devices, and whoever is the victor is the victor. So you see, I don't believe that America has God's backing either in this. I think He left it to the superior force to win out (survival of the fittest).