Questions for Christians of the site

I've thought of these questions myself. I don't know where I stand on the issue of Christianity. I believe in the message of the J man, like love your neighbor, don't be a dick, etc. I also believe in the possibility of God, which is what I believe the force is. But I can't commit to Christianity, because I don't believe the bible is literal, I don't and can't discriminate against gays, I don't believe someone being gay is sinful. I have trouble with those areas of the story that defy science, or physics. Things like raising the dead, the resurrection, the miracles, and the virgin birth. I do believe miracles happen, but not in the literal way the Bible described them. I had someone tell me once, that if I had enough faith in God, my spine would knit back together, my leg muscles would expand and it would be as if I'd never been paralyzed.

Now that to me just goes beyond the realm of common sense and believability and into the area of fantasy. So I don't know if I could ever be a Christian, even though I was raised in a Christian home, because I can't believe in all the stuff that goes with it. I am however interested in what I've seen called Christian Mysticism.

SeventhSL wrote:
3. As a parent I tell my kids all the time “Don’t do that or you’ll hurt yourself/each other”. How many times do they listen? .

The tree of knowledge of good and evil is basically the source of all knowledge as all knowledge is subject to being either good or evil or having a bit of both qualities.

The tree of knowledge is then analogous to our school system from grade school to the best university.

God, in saying do not eat of it, is basically telling Adam and Eve to stay as mentally blind and morally stupid as they are shown to be with, they did not know they were naked.

As a parent, would you command your children to stay uneducated and stupid and never go to school?

If they did not listen, as you say children are wont to do, would you do like God is shown to do and murder A & E by neglect which is what he did when locking away the tree of life which would have kept A & E alive.

Regards
DL

steamboat28 wrote:

MadHatter wrote:

2. How do you get past the things that caused the death of children in the bible?

How do you get past the things that cause the death of chidlren now? People die in cataclysms. It's terribly unfortunate, but only recently have we developed the technology to predict natural disasters with any accuracy.

3. How do you get past Gods nonintervention in things like world hunger, rape, the murder of the innocent, etc?

Again, how do you get past our own non-intervention in those things? .

For starters, if most here were witnessing a crime and could intervene safely, they likely would. Some, depending on where they live, would be compelled by law if they are in a community where either Good Samaritan, citizen's arrest or Duty to rescue laws exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue

To your number two reply.

God is actively killing those children. Any God who can cure as well as kill, and chooses to kill, iis what we Gnostic Christians call a vile demiurge.

If you ever meet Yahweh, tell him I have a bullet with his name on it.

Regards
DL

1. Do you believe that it is a choice to go to heaven or hell? If you believe it's a choice how can it be when its made with a threat over one's head. To me, it feels like love me or suffer and that is not a choice in my eyes.
It is kinda a choice. It's a choice whether or not you believe. If you believe then, it's your choice whether or not to follow God, if you dont believe, then Hell is not something to worry about because you dont believe in it

2. How do you get past the things that caused the death of children in the bible? Such as the flooding of earth, the death of the firstborn, the rain of fire upon sodom and its sister city, the setting of a bear upon youths for mocking a prophet? If you say you feel they are parables how do you separate parable from literal?
God flooded the earth because back in that time there was WAY too much sin in the world and God was displeased. So he cleansed the world by bring upon a flood, but at the end, he knew what he did was drastic and promised to never do such a thing again. And the death of the firstborn was a punishment for those who disrespected and disobeyed God.

3. How do you get past Gods nonintervention in things like world hunger, rape, the murder of the innocent, etc? I know I could not walk past someone being beaten in the street and not act. Never mind if I could end the act with a thought. No amount of us having free will can justify claiming to love someone but watching them suffer terribly when you can stop it with no risks to yourself. ( in my eyes that is.)
All the evil in the world was brought upon by mankind itself. We are the ones who originally sinned. Everything that goes on in the world may not be what God wants, but it is what we brought upon ourselves by the original sin.

Silas Eventhorne wrote: 1. Do you believe 2, 3

I don't think its a threat but a particular set of observations of the nature of a wider universe, nor cast blame for action or inaction, because I don't buy into the anthropomorphic interpretation of deities. I manage to take from it as much truth as I can but not be distracted by the celebrities

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEBg0KJgasI

hehe ooops sorry :pinch:

Silas Eventhorne wrote: 1. Do you believe that it is a choice to go to heaven or hell? If you believe it's a choice how can it be when its made with a threat over one's head. To me, it feels like love me or suffer and that is not a choice in my eyes.
It is kinda a choice. It's a choice whether or not you believe. If you believe then, it's your choice whether or not to follow God, if you dont believe, then Hell is not something to worry about because you dont believe in it

2. How do you get past the things that caused the death of children in the bible? Such as the flooding of earth, the death of the firstborn, the rain of fire upon sodom and its sister city, the setting of a bear upon youths for mocking a prophet? If you say you feel they are parables how do you separate parable from literal?
God flooded the earth because back in that time there was WAY too much sin in the world and God was displeased. So he cleansed the world by bring upon a flood, but at the end, he knew what he did was drastic and promised to never do such a thing again. And the death of the firstborn was a punishment for those who disrespected and disobeyed God.

3. How do you get past Gods nonintervention in things like world hunger, rape, the murder of the innocent, etc? I know I could not walk past someone being beaten in the street and not act. Never mind if I could end the act with a thought. No amount of us having free will can justify claiming to love someone but watching them suffer terribly when you can stop it with no risks to yourself. ( in my eyes that is.)
All the evil in the world was brought upon by mankind itself. We are the ones who originally sinned. Everything that goes on in the world may not be what God wants, but it is what we brought upon ourselves by the original sin.

This was good until you forgot that the fall is a Christian invention that was not the way the Jews read their myths, Jews saw an elevation and not a fall.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/20/comparative-theodicy/

‘Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.

The Jewish God was a winner while the Christian God was a loser.

Regards
DL

I am always astounded at the interpretations people have. It often causes me to wonder just how much they have actually studied or really understand.
:blink:

Or if they just read a sentence or two, or talk to someone once, and jump to conclusions.
:laugh:

Wescli Wardest wrote: I am always astounded at the interpretations people have. It often causes me to wonder just how much they have actually studied or really understand.
:blink:

Or if they just read a sentence or two, or talk to someone once, and jump to conclusions.
:laugh:

Indeed. It is the level of intelligence and education on religious issues that have Christian following a genocidal son murdering God.

Intelligent and moral people know better.

Regards
DL

Yea, intelligent and moral people go around half the web burning straw men whilst dismissing everybody else as stupid or evil just so they can avoid discussing actual points people make. xD

I don't personally believe that it's as simple as a choice between love and suffering. More between recklessness and responsibility. Sure, you're free to walk out into the middle of the road, but you then have to take responsibility for being hit by a speeding vehicle. If there is only one right way to be saved, then you then have to take responsibility for going in another direction as opposed to blaming somebody else for the suffering that your own decision has caused.

Let's say you have a now-grown son that you love. He's plenty old and smart enough to get a job, he'd just rather steal and freeload. And worse, he's not even eating or paying rent with what he's stolen, but instead funding a drug habit. You try everything you can to help. Interventions, rehab, every option is explored, but still he persists. Are you just going to allow him to live in your house, steal things from you, trash the place and fill it with all manner of shady and dangerous people? Or, at the end of your tether, are you going to kick him out until he at least makes an effort to change? Doing so doesn't mean that you no longer love him. He's still your son. But he has to learn.

The problem with free will, which I'm sure most people would agree is preferable to mind control, is that everything everyone does when they have free will affects everyone else. If someone chooses to use their free will to steal, then somebody somewhere will be stolen from. If someone decides to keep all of the food for themself, then somebody somewhere will go hungry. All of these things generate suffering and injustice. But to take it away, we'd need our free will removed along with it. Because people are selfish. And as long as people rebel and insist on doing things that aren't right, it will continue.

Some events are intervened in. But for those that are familiar with Doctor Who, I see these things as though a part of the web of time. Everything is linked to everything else, either directly or indirectly. Change one tiny thing and it will change countless others in terrible and unpredictable ways. I believe that these events are balanced in such a way as to produce the least possible amount of suffering overall, and those events that do still take place are akin to fixed points in history. There is still much suffering, which seems to ever increase as a result of the population ever increasing and continuing to walk selfish paths. But this suffering would be far greater had that balance not been achieved.

You might think 'why me? I just bought that TV.' But in having that TV taken away from you, you have saved others far less affluent from having true necessities taken from them. Or you might have saved somebody in the street from being mugged and accidentally killed instead. You might even still think 'why me?' after gaining this knowledge. But you can't see the entire web. You don't know how the saving of your TV will affect the rest of the world. Butterflies and hurricanes, and all that.

The difference in temperament between the old and new testaments is, so far as I understand, a result of the cross. In the old testament, everybody's sins remained unatoned for and there was anger because the sins stood and persisted. In the new, they had been paid for, and so the anger was by far reduced. That anger is righteous anger. You see somebody mugged and of course you're going to be angry about it. Of course you're going to do something to help if you're able to. Punching a mugger in the face to save their victim doesn't necessarily make you a bad person.

People are also very flawed. They make mistakes, and yes, many do fail to live up to the values they themselves ascribe to. But that doesn't mean that those values are flawed in themselves. That just means that those individuals slipped, or gave up, or thought 'do you know what, I've had enough.' They had a moment, or a day, or a week, or however long, of weakness. They need guidance, not abandonment. Having said that, I do understand that sometimes, when things are bad, you just feel like you need to get out. Sometimes it feels like there are just too many of them for you to make a difference. In those cases, it is better to seek a healthier group of people to share with, though not, in my opinion, to adjust your beliefs because of them. You held those beliefs for a reason, and, again, their failure to live by certain values does not invalidate those values. It just means that those followers were not as strong as they should have been. They had a glimpse of the dark side, if you will, and they wavered.

The Bible was written by men, but was inspired by God. Some of the old testament consists of histories or ancient law. And in those histories and laws, sometimes people did or wrote things that weren't right. Again, that is down to the weakness or misunderstanding of the doers and the writers. Sometimes laws might have had reasons or good intentions behind them, but were just mistaken. None of the ten commandments say 'thou shalt not be gay'.

As for miracles, well. If they didn't defy scientific understanding, they would hardly be miraculous.

Remember, there are many things that science has yet to understand or discover. We would once have said that teleportation would defy science, and yet subatomic particles have been proven to do just that.