I Am

Streen wrote: But who are we? What right do we have as a people to call ourselves by a name that we cannot possibly hope to live up to? What we can do is be good people, certainly. Spread light in our lives. Be kind to those around us. That's what the world needs.

I think its's even better to ask... "Who are you" Who is Streen? To say that one can't live (or even) hope to live up to a teaching that is practical and done by people on a daily basis is short sighted and possibly speaks only to your effort. With that point of view there is no one around that can even be considered "good people" (as you say we should be) and no one qualified to "Spread Light...".

I would encourage you to interact more with the site, and you will come across plenty of people that are "good" representives of Jedi. It may even be you.

Streen wrote: The responses you've all given are much appreciated.

What seems to be a common belief amongst most of you is the idea of a "doctrine". This is part of the problem. The TOTJO doctrine is even more fictional than the original beliefs expressed in the Star Wars movies. What is more frustrating is that every Jedi site seems to have their own doctrine. So, which do you follow? Which one is right? These questions are rhetorical, just things you might want to ask yourselves.

Don't allow yourself to be indoctrinated. Go back to the source. That's where the answers lie.

(None of this is meant to imply any of you don't already know these things, but this message is more for those who don't)

Curiously, have you posted this at the other sites you frequent?

Look bud, as Proteus is subtly saying, you are moving through a quagmire of thought, that many of us have been through, or will go through....

I (and many others like Alex in his response here) have said if this place goes 'fiction', we are outta here! We say that, because we have moved past the names and symbolism that man, and ourselves, have placed on things, and are thinking for ourselves...

To talk about a 'thing', we needed a word to start with, "jedi' choose 'force' as our word... Using other words on our journey, Tao, God, Gaia, Goddess, Mother Nature, oneness, source, light... Pick your term....

We laugh when we tell people "well, I am a jedi, cause I believe there is some kind of 'force', some kind of energy, running through the universe, and 'force' is the word I currently use for it..."

Because we know how it sounds....

Someone (and I have said it as well) that we are a loose conglomeration of individuals who think a bit differently from each other, and a lot different from the majority of the planet... At least it would seem that way at times... :lol:...

"indoctrinated" - *snort... lol...

I used to tell people when this was brought up, "we dont tell people WHAT to think, we only ask that they DO think..."

Streen wrote: What seems to be a common belief amongst most of you is the idea of a "doctrine". This is part of the problem. The TOTJO doctrine is even more fictional than the original beliefs expressed in the Star Wars movies.

Hmm, I beg to differ. In the original Star Wars it was implied that the whole Force thing was a religious one, albeit rooted in something actually real within the universe. There is some debate to be had whether either the Force or the Dark Side were a fair interpretation of the underlying spirit of the galaxy and the fact there was a conflict, there was indeed a debate to be had is itself perhaps one of the more profound unspoken messages in Return Of The Jedi. Now, the TOTJO doctrine is crucially different in that it is a religious doctrine for actual people rather than an arguably one-dimensional position on something real within the local universe it is intended for. I am being a little nitpicky here, but I think that the two are a little too grossly dissimilar for comparison. What does it even mean in this context for one of them to be "more fictional" than the other?

What is more frustrating is that every Jedi site seems to have their own doctrine. So, which do you follow? Which one is right? These questions are rhetorical, just things you might want to ask yourselves.

Don't allow yourself to be indoctrinated. Go back to the source. That's where the answers lie.

See, this is what I think a far more crucial problem is. Why does it frustrate you that different groups made up different expressions of what they believe? Rhetorical or not, considering the latest bit of the quoted passage, you seem to expect there being some "the answers" somewhere, and it frustrates you that nothing anybody comes up with gets you any closer to them. But the assumption that they exist or that some positions are closer to them than others are both your own. In the absense of the one true answer it is no great feat to consistently fail at finding it, but the disappointment you feel because of that is completely of your own making. The one ring to rule them all is frankly a fantasy that, with all due respect to Middle Earth, belongs in a simplistic and fantastical world. To look for it out here is, to put it bluntly, a fool's errand. Our lives are far more complicated than that, and far less magical.

Gisteron wrote: hetorical or not, considering the latest bit of the quoted passage, you seem to expect there being some "the answers" somewhere, and it frustrates you that nothing anybody comes up with gets you any closer to them

lol, I always figured that 'the answer', as in the case of my VERY Christian friend, is that which allows you to cope your way through life.....

Then, some of us found we dont have to cope, we just have to accept, and then the pressure for answers is off...

Jestor wrote: lol, I always figured that 'the answer', as in the case of my VERY Christian friend, is that which allows you to cope your way through life.....

Then, some of us found we dont have to cope, we just have to accept, and then the pressure for answers is off...

How can there be any single final answer if life is to stay creative process?

I think, the search for answer is needed just to make us aware of who we are, what kind of life we want. When we understand that and can describe ourselves in 3 words or less - then we're able to live freely and with purpose. But that's a very scary process - discovering who we are - at least, for me.

den385 wrote:

Jestor wrote: lol, I always figured that 'the answer', as in the case of my VERY Christian friend, is that which allows you to cope your way through life.....

Then, some of us found we dont have to cope, we just have to accept, and then the pressure for answers is off...

How can there be any single final answer if life is to stay creative process?

I think, the search for answer is needed just to make us aware of who we are, what kind of life we want. When we understand that and can describe ourselves in 3 words or less - then we're able to live freely and with purpose. But that's a very scary process - discovering who we are - at least, for me.

Who says it is a single answer?

Mine is kinda multiple choice... :laugh:

For my Christian friend? it "God's will"...

"To each his own."

I knew I joined this community for a reason!

When we talk about these things, the insights from you guys are simply brilliant!

Jestor wrote: Who says it is a single answer?

Mine is kinda multiple choice... :laugh:

For my Christian friend? it "God's will"...

"To each his own."

Thats the crux of it right there isn't it. We search for answers in everything we experience, every doctrine we come across, every person we encounter, we want them to give us this "answer". We frantically search for it everywhere but in reality there is no final answer existing somewhere in the universe. Instead the answer for each of us is something we already possess. It is inside of us and we just need to come to that realization. No external construct will give you a more satisfying answer than the personal one we find meaning with inside of us. To each of us it is unique and perfect. And no two will ever be the same, just as no two people will ever be the same - this is the mystery of our existence, there is no wrong answer to the question any one of us seeks. We need only find the one that speaks to us and that can only come from within. Until we can come to that realization we are just doing the equivalent of futilely looking for our "car keys" while all the time they are actually in our hand!

"""
Look at every path closely and deliberately. Try it as many times as you think necessary.

This question is one that only a very old man asks. Does this path have a heart?
"""

-- Castaneda

Streen wrote: But who are we? What right do we have as a people to call ourselves by a name that we cannot possibly hope to live up to?

I am Bart, but it is not a name I tend to use.. much.. :dry: Becoming part of this community is one of the best choices I have made, but when I start to think about the question. Could it be that we know who we are, but what we want to do with it? It reminds me of this lovely image that Marta showed me ones..
I do know who I am _{(to a certain degree)}, I do know that I am a Jedi, and I do know the core principles of Jediism for as far that is required. But I do not know where it will bring me, and I do not know what I will do with it. Only that I try to do that what I would like to call a 'blind choice' in our road map. One can learn history, advanced thingies, and structure of philosophy, but philosophy itself, the doing part, can only be learned by doing it? I guess that the same thing can be told about who I am. I know I am me, but I do not know what I want. And I discover what I want every time again when I explore life? Guess that that is what I am. Something ready for exploration.. :blink: