My teacher on Meditation

No, his comment applies to every meditation, does it not?

What meditation does not fit the description he gives?

A very simple explanation of a very overcomplicated matter.

Thanks for the post Connor

Connor Lidell wrote: No, his comment applies to every meditation, does it not?

What meditation does not fit the description he gives?

It is extremely important that we define what our goals actually are for practice then search for systems or schools that can provide that. It is very important to see where the top teachers of any school are at, what benefits their practice has provided them with and then honestly and sincerely to ask ourselves if this is what we are seeking and looking for in a practice. This is something almost no one actually does.


As to the forms of meditation which do not fit his description, this is best discussed in private.


I am not knocking your teacher. He does an excellent job of accurately, and succinctly explaining the form of meditation his school uses.

Unfortunately conventional wisdom in this matter is not true, there is no one form of meditation, all meditations are not the same, all meditations do not achieve the same results.



For example:

1. (at time 1:07) "Meditation can be done in 5 or 10 minute sessions."

This may absolutely be true for his school, but absolutely false for others.



2. (at time 1:13) "Meditation is not done in caves"

This may absolutely be true for his school, but absolutely false for others.



3. (at time 1:17) "Deep trance is not required for meditation"

This may absolutely be true for his school, but absolutely false for others.



4. (at time 1:21) "That's not the purpose of the practice and one doesn't need to do that"

I agree it is not the purpose of his schools form of meditation. I also agree one doesn't need to do that for his schools form of meditation. This however does not also mean it is not the purpose of any other schools that exist, nor does it mean it is not a requirement for any other school.


5. (at time 1:31) "really if one is sitting in a cave or sitting here it's the same mind"

From his schools viewpoint this is true, however there are certain requirements for being in such things as caves for some forms of meditation in various schools.


6. (at time 1:40-1:46) Paraphrased: "all meditation is the same, all teachers are the same, all systems are the same, a person could have saved a lot of money sticking to more commonly known practices"

Here I will have to disagree with your teacher. This just is not true. All meditation isn't the same, all schools and teachers are not the same, and all forms of meditation do not all do the same thing, and do not lead to the same results.


7. (at time 2:18) "It is my understanding that meditation is simply relating to your mind"

Yes and I would have to say his understanding is absolutely correct and valid for his schools form of meditation, however this isn't applicable to all other schools that exist. All forms of meditation are not being familiar and relating to your mind.



8. (at time 3:04) Paraphrased: "Via meditation I gain depth, wisdom, and understanding"

This is a common misconception, that ALL forms of meditation bring understanding, wisdom, knowledge, compassion, equanimity, etc. This is not the goal nor the outcome of ALL forms of meditation.



9. (at time 5:32) "Meditation is contemplation or familiarity with a subject..."

Yes this is absolutely true for his school, as his school defines and teaches it's form of meditation.

Not all forms of meditation meet this criteria, they are not about contemplating or being familiar with an idea or a concept.

we get it maynoth, your school is superior, thank you.

Desolous wrote: we get it htonyam, your school is superior, thank you.

"different strokes for different folks"

I never said his school was better or worse than any other.

I am just hoping to correct some common misconceptions.

All forms of meditation do not serve the same purpose, nor do they use the same methods. What applies to one school of meditation may or may not apply to another.

If some school or method of meditation is better or worse is something each seeker will have to decide for themselves.

I think it is good advice for any spiritual seeker as their first step to really clearly define what it is they want, and what they hope to achieve via their practice, and find teachers that have accomplished that goal.

That seems reasonable to me.

I am not judging your practice, Connor's practice, or anyone else's practice.

I am just trying to clear up some misconceptions.

Which misconceptions would that be Maynoth?

I didnt see anyone posting any...

There are many beginners here, so they need to start at an easy level...

Jestor wrote: Which misconceptions would that be Htonyam?

I didnt see anyone posting any...

There are many beginners here, so they need to start at an easy level...

I pointed them out here:
http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Eastern-studies/104759-my-teacher-on-meditation?limitstart=0&start=10#119619

They should research all the various forms of meditation, not just from various Buddhist or Taoist traditions either.

They should see what masters of these practices have accomplished and ask themselves honestly if that's what they also hope to achieve.


The place a beginner should start in my opinion is not by latching onto the first form of meditation they learn about.

The first step is defining their goal for meditation and practice in the first place. If they cannot clearly and accurately state what it is they hope to accomplish, they will remain a spiritual impulse shopper for the rest of their life.

Thinking clearly, defining clearly what it is you hope to achieve, and finding the best schools to help get you there, that's about as easy as it's going to get.

Once their goals for their practice are defined, their next step is to locate teachers and teachings of schools that have best accomplished their goal(s).

Alice: Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?

The Cat: That depends a good deal on where you want to get to

Alice: I don't much care where.

The Cat: Then it doesn't much matter which way you go.

Alice: …so long as I get somewhere.

The Cat: Oh, you're sure to do that, if only you walk long enough.





Lewis Carroll - Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

"What are you doing?

Why are you doing it?

Where is this going?

If you know, you’ll succeed.

If you don’t, you won’t.

That’s not just pretty talk, that’s the law."


Jed McKenna - Spiritual Enlightenment The Damnedest Thing

My mom, said, "Jestor, I want a computer..."

I said, "What do you want to use it for?"

She said, "I dont know yet."

She doesnt know what she wanted the computer for, so, for the beginning, it can be assumed she doesnt need a gaming computer, a laptop, or really, any high end machine...

THis is how people get sold computers, the person there explains to them, that they need all this memory, and the monitor, and the periphials and before they know it, they just dropped two grand at Best Buy...

Where as somone who has some experience can say, "Well, Im not a gamer, but I do watch movies, and can get one cheaper by knowing what they want, and knowing Best Buy is not the right place to buy a computer for most of us...

If I have no idea what meditaion is for, about, to be used with, or to attain, but I keep hearing on all these new age sites I go to that I ought to try it, then why do it? How do I start?

So, how do I do it, where do I start?

This is the instruction that most people need...

If I find out I want to be able to do pushups with two fingers, or move objects from across the room, then I will find teachers for that sort of stuff...

Currently, I have other things I am working on in my life...

See, the point I am at in my life, I have children, and a mortgage, and auto insurance, and a 75 year old Korean I assist, and in-laws, and other responsibilities than need attended to...

Im not dwelling into the more specialized areas of meditation... Maybe someday...

I was referring to misconceptions by members, not on the video...

As he sits plainly in view, and is well known, no offence, but why would I believe your opinions over his?

Well, enough on that... Sorry...

You, yourself keep saying in your reply to me, where you quoted your other post, "It may be true for his school"...

Does he say in there that it is true for all schools of thought on meditation?

I dont remember him saying that, so if I am wrong, I apologize in advance...

When I say "Martial Arts are XXXXX", I am speaking from the knowledge I have, on a subject I know...

If another instructor came up, and said "Nu-uh, martial arts are YYYYY!!!"... He is speaking from his knowledge....

Would you feel better if with every sentence, he said, "As to my schools train of thoughts on ____"?

This way not all meditational techniques are not lumped together?

Guess what?

That is what is meant, with every breath every one speaks with...

Candy is good...

(In my opinion) Candy is good...

Meditation is required...
(In my opinion) mediation is required (for a balanced life)...

For example:

1. (at time 1:07) "Meditation can be done in 5 or 10 minute sessions."

This may absolutely be true for his school, but absolutely false for others.

Would be better wrote:

For example:

1. (at time 1:07) "Meditation (as I understand it, and teach it) can be done in 5 or 10 minute sessions."

This may absolutely be true for his school, but absolutely false for others.

Does this help?

lol...

It like adding the "In bed" expression at the end of every sentence... Try that, see if it helps you tolerate this guys video...

lol, not the "in bed", but, remembering that he speaks from his experience, expressing his opinions...

Jestor wrote:

My mom, said, "Jestor, I want a computer..."

I said, "What do you want to use it for?"

She said, "I dont know yet."

I am not sure if I follow exactly how this related to meditation.

Buying a computer without a sound card, designed only as a word processor running some custom word processor OS isn't going to let your mom download music to her mp3 player if that's what she wants to do.

Your mom needs education on all the various things a computer can do before she starts jumping into it, or at least I would think as much.

Back to meditation; no amount of Vipassana, Metta, etc. meditation leads to where I want to be.

That isn't a criticism of the practices, they are wonderful for their own purposes.

Jestor wrote:
If I have no idea what meditaion is for, about, to be used with, or to attain, but I keep hearing on all these new age sites I go to that I ought to try it, then why do it? How do I start?

So, how do I do it, where do I start?

This is the instruction that most people need...

I'd have to disagree, what most people need is really up for them to decide.

Before they can decide, however they have to know what their options are.

You start by finding out what what each school of meditation leads to.

What have the masters of each school you are interested in accomplished?

What has it done for them?

Do I really want that for my life?

What is it I really hope to accomplish via meditation?

What is my end goal for practice?

These are questions that absolutely have to be answered at the start of your journey, otherwise you will just be fumbling through not knowing what it is you are doing, or why you are even doing it.

Jestor wrote:
why would I believe your opinions over his?

Because you have the capacity for logical, rational and critical thinking within you.

Nothing I've said is unreasonable. It should be common sense, but sadly it isn't.

Alice: Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?

The Cat: That depends a good deal on where you want to get to

Alice: I don't much care where.

The Cat: Then it doesn't much matter which way you go.

Alice: …so long as I get somewhere.

The Cat: Oh, you're sure to do that, if only you walk long enough.





Lewis Carroll - Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

"What are you doing?

Why are you doing it?

Where is this going?

If you know, you’ll succeed.

If you don’t, you won’t.

That’s not just pretty talk, that’s the law."


Jed McKenna - Spiritual Enlightenment The Damnedest Thing