Profiles - Gender

steamboat28 wrote:

ren wrote: Gender is a metric that identifies significantly less people than Sex.

Care to quote a statistic on that, or are we going on your traditional ultra-conservative, "everybody but me is wrong", ostrich-head-in-the-socio-political-sand ramblings here?

there is no statistic for that, statistics do not measure things which do not exist. I see you once again show absolute ignorance of other cultures on this topic. You used to be a decent guy, what happened?

Wow this escalated quickly.. what if we take away both options ? We are supposed to be a community that embraces and accepts eachothers differences , but this discussion clearly proves we cannot. Bickering like little children over metrics , its the first time i really feel ashamed of you , really ,...take the options away and talk to eachother about who you are , because ideas are fluid and metrics are not , but if this is so offensive to people maybe they should consider getting a thicker skin or ...be a Jedi and accept people are different , some are metric and some are fluid ...

ren wrote: there is no statistic for that, statistics do not measure things which do not exist. I see you once again show absolute ignorance of other cultures on this topic. You used to be a decent guy, what happened?

Gender exists as a concept. It has for a very long time. It is such an old concept that it has been traditionally subverted by shaman and medicine workers for the whole of recorded history.

Would you, having that knowledge, like to present me with evidence from a sociologist or anthropologist that says otherwise? Because if not, you're talking out of your ass to push your own opinion.


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I'm disappointed my request for the topic to be taken elsewhere (this was just a thread about adding a gender option to the profile) has been ignored.

Edan,

It was taken elsewhere, now everyone is just carrying on the debate in two places :laugh:

If you've got no interest in reading through all the diatribe (I don't blame you)

It was Changed to

Sex: Male, Female, Neither.

Then back to

Gender: Male, Female, Non-Entry.

So, twelve hours of chest puffing and debate...and we're back where we started

Come back in another day, and it may or may not be a different story

steamboat28 wrote:

ren wrote: there is no statistic for that, statistics do not measure things which do not exist. I see you once again show absolute ignorance of other cultures on this topic. You used to be a decent guy, what happened?

Gender exists as a concept. It has for a very long time. It is such an old concept that it has been traditionally subverted by shaman and medicine workers for the whole of recorded history.

Would you, having that knowledge, like to present me with evidence from a sociologist or anthropologist that says otherwise? Because if not, you're talking out of your ass to push your own opinion.


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Ah personal attacks.

First of all "sex" exists all over the world. "gender" does not exist all over the world. You have been told this a dozen times now by myself and other members. It is not about how old "gender" is, but if you must mention age know this: "sex" also existed long before any ideas of anything, let alone "gender" did, around 1.2 billion years ago? I don't think they had shamans 1.2 billion years ago. But you can supply evidence from a sociologist or anthropologist that says otherwise if it makes you happy.
I incidentally recall being told that two-spirits is not the same as gender. You may very well be offending native-americans with your statements.


Secondly. You have witnessed no such things from me.

I do not believe that whatever groups I belong to are better, because don't like what comes with groups and refrain from joiing them. 10 years of totjo, I wrote half the doctrine and you don't wonder why I'm just a member? Are you just having a laugh with this?

You have most certainly not witnessed racism from me as my wife and children are not "my race", and I get along with people from other cultures --just not yours--, unfortunately we're the same race, so that still doesn't count as racism. Better luck next time

You have not witnessed sexism from me as I have a son and daughter, and I don't want them to be discriminated against or turned rotten by feminists, an issue most people here know concerns me greatly.

I'm also not an "ableist". You see my son has a mental illness, another thing I have not kept secret here, and particularly concerned about his rights. What can I say I'm a libertarian. I also remember having to defend people with symptoms I am familiar with here, from you and your bully friends.

I have no idea where the homophobia comment comes from, as I've got good relationships with homosexuals on and off totjo, including a physical one which I have spoken about before, here at totjo.

As to the transphobic comment, I do not see how sex is transphobic. I do not see how giving an option other than "male" and "female" is transphobic.


Now that everything is back as it was, surely you can calm down?

ren wrote: Ah personal attacks.

ren wrote: You used to be a decent guy, what happened?

???

ren wrote: No-one's forced to do anything. The option not to answer remains an option.

Gender is a metric that identifies significantly less people than Sex.

What if people want the option of putting something other than male/female? Doesn't this put us at the beginning of the thread? A text box seems the most straightforward if Gender is to remain an option. Indeed even if the option is sex (which was changed without Council notification) there are still non-binaries which would similarly be straightforwardly accommodated with a text box.

Another approach suggested would be to remove the option entirely, there is space for it in the "About Me" section of the profile. This option would also remove any issues with promoting one category over the other.

Edan suggested an additional option, martalina suggested "gender" was the wrong word. After a quick review of what would be needed I agreed with both, even though at first I didn't see much sense to edan's request.

A text box seems the most straightforward if Gender is to remain an option.

As I explained in the thread adding new options to the list is easy, but not replacing the field with a text box without screwing up years of profiles, which are known to be quirky. As there's a plethora of genders and only 3 possible answers for sex, it made perfect sense.

Some people want gender, some people don't. I never envisioned changing "gender:male/female" which only covers a small portion of human population to "sex: male/female/neither", which covers 100% of the human population for such a tiny nothing on a %&*&$$ profile page could trigger such bullying at totjo, which I now think has got to be the most bigoted place I have ever frequented.



As such I agree with your assessment that it should be removed. People here have shown they are absolutely incapable of having sex, gender or for others to have a different one. There is already an "about" box where people can put anything they want (I do), and that's what should be used until the people who find themselves obsessed with this rubbish can learn to control themselves. As clergy people were involved I would also like to note standards seem lower than ever in that area.

Once again. You don't get to personally make that decision for other people. And that fact that you haphazardly did so knowing how important of a subject this can be for some people is beyond concerning. I find it hard to believe that you didn't imagine taking away a form of self identification you have openly stated doesn't exist in place of a biological identification you know some don't agree is accurate would be received any other way than poorly.

If you're so concerned with "screwing up profiles" add it as a new text box. "Training master" and "apprentice" didn't exist as options when I joined three years ago; I believe they were added last summer. Adding a new profile option can obviously be done so don't tell me it can't be. Don't want to screw up live profiles? Do it locally to verify it works before uploading the changes live.

As it is, the call has been made for gender and for text box vs drop down by I believe three council members now. But don't push your personal agenda on people because you have the ability to do so.