Taking Part in the Process...As an experienced Jedi

right after the new movie was out and we had like 10000 new people, i logged on and went to latest posts and it was Cabur Senaar (im sorry if i didnt spell that right) ALL THE WAY DOWN THE PAGE, greeting new members, most of whom havent posted since

elizibeth will go weeks without posting in forum but youll see her constantly greeting new comers

same with several others

Edan and Adder probably are still PMing new members, just like they PMd me a year ago when i started posting here

kamizu makes stuff to auction off

which another member (Reliah iirc?) bought, also to help the temple (and because the box was lovely of course)

not long ago someone found something in the IP to be inaccessible so he just reformatted it or something - just up and made it easier for everyone else to read, no one asked him, he just up and did it to be helpful

a while back someone started a topic where they said their life was miserable, one oftheir problems was that they were poor

well, one of the members here responded by saying she was a financial advisor or financial planner or something, and the she just offered her services to help him out if he wanted - just "hey im willing to work to help your life get better even though i know you cant pay me for it"

severl times ive seen people offer to volunteer their technical computer knowledge to help the temple

i dont know how much ever comes out of those

but it always seemed to me when i saw these things that the people who were doing them did them because they really value this community, and they want to participate in the proccess of totjo in a positive and contributing way

nothing to do with rank and nothing to do with being recognized for their "experience as jedi"

everything to do with affection for the temple to the point of being willing to make EFFORT

to WORK

and thats it, i think ive reached my posting limit for this thread

i'll work on that brevity thing as soon as i get the tact thing figured out

Just because so and so does such and such....dosn't give us the right to respond with "It dosn't matter." (Because A: It is such a negative response and B: It does matter - to a point obviously.)

I have as much right to say it doesnt matter as he has in saying it does.

The difference is, I am not resting on my laurels to make my point.

Jestor wrote: Text environment, lol..

It sucks!

Why does it sucks? Words that are written do not change in a post. (One could replace the words though). It will enable the reader to be reminded, even if the reader has forgotten that what was written out. I enjoy text environment because of that.
If experienced Jedi Streen would write a IP, Journal, or whatever he would do, I will be thankful to be able to read it. But my opinion would not matter anyway, his journal would be open, and would allow experienced Jedi Streen to read it himself too, a personal Journal helps to think back to whatever he discovers or feels. It could help him mind about how he changed in opinion if he would do. Text environment is able to give us that what a live environment would not.
Though I fully understand that it can be lots more difficult to face a stranger in a live environment for those who are not used in doing so.
~~~

~ Aqua

Offtopic: about the ladder thing ..

Connor L. wrote: I think he means influence here is directly correlated to what rank you have.

Correct, that was what I thought. Guess I made a mess of picking my words, somehow I always do.. Sorry

Streen wrote: I've had a lot to think about today. Jestor has made me aware of certain things, facts that I had overlooked, understanding the conflict I was inducing my posting links to other Jedi sites. This post really isn't even about that, but the underlying truth is, I could be doing much more good here if I were to truly became involved and stop fighting the system. You could say that the old expression applies: if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Not that I felt I was in competition with TOTJO, but I certainly wasn't an ally either. Which brings me to my question...

As a man who's been following the Jedi path for roughly 18 years, if I were to truly join TOTJO, follow the rules, rise through the ranks, where in the world would I begin? I can prove my experience, specifically with all my writings and my history, with references, etc. Not that I'm trying to take the easy route by skipping past certain assignments or whatever, but I felt that some things would be redundant or even a waste of time. I may be making assumptions on this, but I wouldn't really know.

So, can anyone give me some advice?

I genuinly love the IP , i think i will do it in another few years just to see how i have evolved , i like the things you write , i like the way you reach out and present possibilities to this community. Your writings and history are very valueble to me. I am a complete Novice , i dont even know that much about Star Wars :S The Temple and all other communities on the web are valueble , some even for showing us what a Jedi should not be . My reason for staying here is because i find it welcoming and loving and i can be of service here. That is a feeling inside that can make me proceed, finish the Ip go on my way.

If you are pondering over this descision it means you are thinking about it, something touched your heart and now you have to figure out what you want , really want, this has little to do with rank and more with your hearts desire , choose wise ,i wish you wisdom and Strenght a lot of the Force , what ever you decide , it will be good ....it WILL be good

Ow ,..and i love Jestor he really knows exactly to make us wonder about our motives , good one haha

Aqua wrote:

Jestor wrote: Text environment, lol..

It sucks!

Why does it sucks? Words that are written do not change in a post. (One could replace the words though). It will enable the reader to be reminded, even if the reader has forgotten that what was written out. I enjoy text environment because of that.

Well, specifically, I mean that "text" does not allow the "give and take" of a conversation... The inflection and body language that also helps to define a conversation, is lost....

There is the confusion from usingva word incorrectly by non-english-as-a-first-laguage-ers... .. This one is easily forgiveness, lol, and understandable...

And, as I said recently, and Khaos alluded to in this thread, words are "static" and just like a computer, they begin to age the moment they are captured... Same with a picture, or any physical object....

Today, I think "x", tomorrow, with more knowledge and consideration, "z"...

Oo.. .. Body language is lost indeed.. We do have smileys at the forum, but they do not work as fine as a body. I find text environment useful because I can alter it if I make a mistake for example. I do it a lot, many posts of my have edits..

Normal speech will give less trouble with understanding, how could I not think about that sooner. :blink: I do like talking, please do not get me wrong about that! :side: I enjoy both.. They have both advantages and disadvantages. Thank you for explaining my question.

Aqua wrote: Oo.. .. Body language is lost indeed.. We do have smileys at the forum, but they do not work as fine as a body.

I have a real problem at portraying my intentions. Often times they get viewed as a negative instead of a positive or just thinking. Used to be I wouldn't use smilies....people suggested that I try it. So I did....now people tell me I use them too much and it makes my posts appear smug and conceded....

In the end there is no pleasing people haha :laugh: I would hope that, as Jedi, we would infer the posative in peoples textual words and not the negative.....not so simple though.

Text is a mixed bag. But so is real life....I am alot more shy and inwards in real life and have just as much an issue portraying my thoughts in real life as I do in text.

Streen's post for example....I did not take it as a "Let me skip ahead and be viewed as a Master"

I took it as "Where do I begin?"

Just because he's been around TOTJO off and on dosn't mean he really focused on the process of things.

I could be wrong. But it shows how text can be interpreted on two completely separate ends of the scale

Kitsu Tails wrote:

Aqua wrote: Oo.. .. Body language is lost indeed.. We do have smileys at the forum, but they do not work as fine as a body.

I have a real problem at portraying my intentions. Often times they get viewed as a negative instead of a positive or just thinking. Used to be I wouldn't use smilies....people suggested that I try it. So I did....now people tell me I use them too much and it makes my posts appear smug and conceded....

In the end there is no pleasing people haha :laugh: I would hope that, as Jedi, we would infer the posative in peoples textual words and not the negative.....not so simple though.

Text is a mixed bag. But so is real life....I am alot more shy and inwards in real life and have just as much an issue portraying my thoughts in real life as I do in text.

Streen's post for example....I did not take it as a "Let me skip ahead and be viewed as a Master"

I took it as "Where do I begin?"

Just because he's been around TOTJO off and on dosn't mean he really focused on the process of things.

I could be wrong. But it shows how text can be interpreted on two completely separate ends of the scale

If you see your quote, I have highlighted some things that draw my attention.

You are viewed as negative, and positive at the same time by different people. I do not know how shy you are, but if you like using smileys, you should do it. If you do not like using smileys, you should not do it.
In the end, it all depends what you would like to do. I myself can not please every person, even if I would.. I do care what people think, I do care what people think of me.. But if I would not feel comfortable with it myself, I would not do it.
I would support you whatever side you would choose in displaying your text, with or without smileys. Please, just make sure you feel comfortable with it. It would make me feel comfortable too

Aqua wrote:

Kitsu Tails wrote:

Aqua wrote: Oo.. .. Body language is lost indeed.. We do have smileys at the forum, but they do not work as fine as a body.

I have a real problem at portraying my intentions. Often times they get viewed as a negative instead of a positive or just thinking. Used to be I wouldn't use smilies....people suggested that I try it. So I did....now people tell me I use them too much and it makes my posts appear smug and conceded....

In the end there is no pleasing people haha :laugh: I would hope that, as Jedi, we would infer the posative in peoples textual words and not the negative.....not so simple though.

Text is a mixed bag. But so is real life....I am alot more shy and inwards in real life and have just as much an issue portraying my thoughts in real life as I do in text.

Streen's post for example....I did not take it as a "Let me skip ahead and be viewed as a Master"

I took it as "Where do I begin?"

Just because he's been around TOTJO off and on dosn't mean he really focused on the process of things.

I could be wrong. But it shows how text can be interpreted on two completely separate ends of the scale

If you see your quote, I have highlighted some things that draw my attention.

You are viewed as negative, and positive at the same time by different people. I do not know how shy you are, but if you like using smileys, you should do it. If you do not like using smileys, you should not do it.
In the end, it all depends what you would like to do. I myself can not please every person, even if I would.. I do care what people think, I do care what people think of me.. But if I would not feel comfortable with it myself, I would not do it.
I would support you whatever side you would choose in displaying your text, with or without smileys. Please, just make sure you feel comfortable with it. It would make me feel comfortable too

I had no idea that my post would generate such reactions, but let me clarify some things...

I'm not asking to be made a Master. Personally I don't believe in "Jedi Masters". "Mentor" would be a better word, but I don't expect to be labeled as such officially here without doing some work. My main question was simply, "How much work do I have to do to get there?" It's been suggested to me by a certain member that I could try starting from the very beginning, but the thought of that honestly makes me feel weary. It's not laziness. People who might imply that it is don't know what I've been through or what I've seen and experienced over the past 20 years.

What I'd like to do is prove that I am capable of much more than being an apprentice. It's a little hard to claim that title while at the same time mentoring someone (yes, I currently have a student at Jediism Way). I would think that a place like TOTJO would bend certain rules when there are many people out there who have been Jedi much longer than this site has even existed.

If not, oh well. I'll go on teaching as I always have. I'm not saying all this for my own benefit anyway. I want to help. That's all.

I can not speak what the temple will do, it would be out of my place to be honest. If you truly want, you can finish IP within a day, you could be initiate within 60 days, and become a knight within 8 months as minimum If I do understand it correctly. Though I would not advise you to do it, the temple does have room to grand you knighthood within 10 months.

But I would like to ask you this, would it make you feel better? Would a apprentice feel better if he/ she would hear that you did finish it so quick? Can a apprentice feel comfortable around you then? And would you feel the responsibility if something would go wrong due it?

As I did asked before, do you have prove of your experience in 20 years? I think that I did not ask the correct question. I want to say sorry towards you for asking. I would like to mention that experience in years do not matter. What you did within the years does.

Hope that you will realize that the temple has requirements. These requirements are to safeguard the transfer of knowledge that is thought within the temple. Your knowledge might be there, but it is not controlled by the temple in any way. If I come towards the point of becoming apprentice, I will not choose a training master that uses knowledge that is taught outside the temple. I would have to redo my training if I would discover it. I can not take that risk.

I believe that the temple does not have rules to bully you in any way dearest experienced Jedi Streen, but safeguarding the transfer of knowledge allowed by the temple should be high on your list. I would recommend you to take the long path, even if you were allowed to have a title of Knighthood, very quick, it would be most likely that you would have not many apprentices because they would not trust it. At least, that is a possibility. I would not say some would not choose you because of it. It would be highly possible that it would happen.
If it would happen, and you would not have many apprentices, you would have not have your ultimate dream of mentor? Would that be worth it if you like teaching other people? Though you could go for one. But I guess you want a lot of apprentices. (guessing) I do not believe that it is worth it. Just my humble novice opinion.. Mind about it, and continue your way to what ever result it may bring you.



~ Aqua

Streen wrote: I would think that a place like TOTJO would bend certain rules when there are many people out there who have been Jedi much longer than this site has even existed.

The issue is that once you make that allowance for one, it opens doors that may be difficult to close.

I can see where he is going though, picture high school going on to college. At some point you have to take an assessment test to see I'd you retained your knowledge from high school..if you tested at a college trigonometry level for example you don't have to take that class again you can just choose to proceed. If there was something like that, an application and test followed by an interview and any supporting documents you could possibly do it that way. But coming up with the criteria for the test and all the extra man hours involved in putting all of that together and doing interviews and filtering out applications from just the wanna be knights etc, it would be a huge pain and cause a lot more problems then it would solve.

I do think there is room for a title of someone who has been knighted else where by a respectable community would be of merit. Where it would be obvious they are a knight if a different community but not here, they dont have any extra privileges then a member but it at least shows they are a more honorary guest of the site then just a member for sake of credentials, that would make sense to me anyway.

Tellahane wrote: I do think there is room for a title of someone who has been knighted else where by a respectable community would be of merit.

Yea...there was once. Ambassador roles. Way back in the day I was an Ambassador here at TOTJO. (Edit: I guess I should say...Old Old OLD Totjo haha) I did exactly what I do now....Work on providing history, handling interaction between communities and alerting everyone about new gatherings....now im just an Apprentice here.

I don't think Streen is concerned about Rank though. He is just asking for something to do to help out around here. A Job...not a rank...I was doing the same thing when I first came. I didn't really want to go through the whole "Master/Apprentice" process simply because I've had five Masters in my day and loosely taught many students out of here (they came to me) and other locations. I wanted to help. I didn't want to prove myself. I didn't want to be seen as something greater than everyone else. I just wanted to use the skills i have to help.....Its kind of what I do.

I chose freely to do the IP and go through the Apprentice roles because I have the time to do it. I am a stay at home mom and have left alot of the other community groups and past responsibilities. So...I have the time and I want to participate. Perhaps when/If I become a Knight I could work on something like you suggested Tellahane

However. Regardless...Streen. I could be wrong....but I tend to notice that the best way to help is to simply pick something out that you see needs help with and do it. Submit it for review and Ta Dah! You helped Pick one of the forum sections and start filling it up with topics and facts. I notice there is alot of questions about Meditations, something your good at if I recall Start sharing! Topics around here pop up rather slowly. I am sure they would love the help there.

Or your paintings start making painted portraits with the TOTJO logo and sell them to the temple members - use the money to support their hosting

Streen wrote: I would think that a place like TOTJO would bend certain rules when there are many people out there who have been Jedi much longer than this site has even existed.

If not, oh well. I'll go on teaching as I always have. I'm not saying all this for my own benefit anyway. I want to help. That's all.

I'm becoming more and more proud that they don't bend the rules. I don't see what the big hurry is. You can "teach by example" with or without a title. I've learned from guests here, too. It's just a matter of perspective.

I would think that a place like TOTJO would bend certain rules when there are many people out there who have been Jedi much longer than this site has even existed.

Prove your the type of person someone should bend rules for.

Again, so what that you have been a Jedi longer than this place has been here?

So far, you have posted links to other sites, and on behalf of someone who likened current Jedi groups to Pedophilia. By your own admission, you have not been an ally.

Since the past is so important then, and not the present, what in your past actions here, makes you think you deserve to have the rules bent for you?

More, you have proven they shouldnt be.

However, present actions(what you do now)....Perhaps not unlike Kit has just mentioned....could change that.

Whether or not rank is important, or even the IP,what is the problem with earning your place in some way instead of simply expecting it?

Streen wrote: I'm not asking to be made a Master. Personally I don't believe in "Jedi Masters". "Mentor" would be a better word, but I don't expect to be labeled as such officially here without doing some work. ... If not, oh well. I'll go on teaching as I always have. I'm not saying all this for my own benefit anyway. I want to help. That's all.

My only question is what is it that you would like to do that you can't now? I can understand feeling that people will only take what you have to say seriously if they see a rank bar underneath your avatar, but are those people truly deserving of the wisdom that you would impart? (you could argue that they might be in more need of it) If you wish to help people I say that you can regardless of rank. You can't formally have a student at TOTJO but you can certainly impact the lives of the people here.

That said, I would say to go through the IP. Do it the long way. I plan to go through it all again after my apprenticeship is officially ended. (I say officially because Edan will always be my teacher ) If for no other reason than to see how you might have changed since you last did the same or similar work.

Or your paintings start making painted portraits with the TOTJO logo and sell them to the temple members - use the money to support their hosting

Yes, we do not allow posts for sale for personal profit...

We do not allow posts for fundraisers...

We do not allow ANY pleas for money...

I even do my best to not do it about donations for totjo... From anyone, although I feel a challenge coming up on that, lol...

The reason is, we all have worthy causes to our heart, and we cannot give to them all... So, we ask that none get posted...

I recieve no personal gain (monetary), and br John, receives no personal gain (monetary), we do get the 'job well done, hopefully it is helping someone' satisfaction, and honestly, for me that is enough...

If the founder is not making a profit in any way, why should someone be able to hawk wares for personal profit?

We do have the "Swap Meet" forum, but, it is not for garage sales or auctions...

We also have a TOTJO eBay, in case anyone doesnt know, and Kamizu has donated the last few items up for bid as her way of donating to totjo...

Anyway, just a quick blurb on that... Please copy me and start a new thread if you have other questions...

Tellahane wrote: If there was something like that, an application and test followed by an interview and any supporting documents you could possibly do it that way.

Sure, the hard part of the IP is the watching, listening or reading...

At this point, I could go elsewhere, and write these topics without even re-watching them, and could theoretically do our IP in a day or two without stress, write up my credentials, and submit myself to an interview...

We still have the 60 day thing, but Streen has been a member longer than that, so that doesnt affect him...

Then there is the apprenticeship, yes, this part is tougher to get through, but, it is not the end of the world... I mean, Ive been kind to Kitsu SO far, lol... But, she isnt new either, and right now, we are just chatting, although this is a busy month for me, so not quite as much as I like to talk, I hope to step that up before long,

My son spent a year at a private school, only to transfer to another school, and was told all those hours in the religion classes dont transfer, so the credits dont count... Thats just how life is sometimes... Take what we can, deal with the rest, lol...

At this date, however, we have no procedure (as Alex and some others how I am about protocol... I didnt think C3-Po was my idol, but, it looks more and more like he is, lol...

Kitsu wrote: but I tend to notice that the best way to help is to simply pick something out that you see needs help with and do it. Submit it for review and Ta Dah!

Typically, we do ask for our Knights to be in areas of responsibility, but, that has been bent by the dedication others have shown... Recently, Jedi_Roz was ask to run the eBay, and she was an apprentice.... Edan was ask to be the Youth Officer as an apprentice.... Plokoon is working on an offline thing, as an apprentice... tzb helped with the totjo member map as an apprentice...

rugadd put together a small booklet (still waiting on mine brutha! lol) like a pocket totjo book... as a Novice...

And, seriously, lets NOT forget the impact guests like Khaos and Gisteron have... I love these two guys, despite occasional head-bumping... I even find that fun, lol...

Or even Mortose, and Hannigan before their banning...

Everyone has an affect on everything... It is the way of the world...

Watching the few rules/policies we do have, of course...

Kistu wrote: Yea...there was once. Ambassador roles. Way back in the day I was an Ambassador here at TOTJO. (Edit: I guess I should say...Old Old OLD Totjo haha) I did exactly what I do now....Work on providing history, handling interaction between communities and alerting everyone about new gatherings...

We are all ambassadors of ourselves, and antwhere we call home, be it virtual, or physical...

We (Council) did discuss Ambassadors here, and really, saw no need...

I happen to be one at TOTJF, lol...

hiddeninthesnow wrote: I'm becoming more and more proud that they don't bend the rules. I don't see what the big hurry is. You can "teach by example" with or without a title. I've learned from guests here, too. It's just a matter of perspective.

Right...

We have at least two college professors, both seeking their doctorate, and never once have they said anything about their previous training, except in a offhand way... Both are now knights... They did the IP...

Not to mention the scores of college educated people (I am not one, stay in school kids!!) going throgh the same system...

I can see both sides, but, as Edan said earlier:

Edan wrote: The issue is that once you make that allowance for one, it opens doors that may be difficult to close.

And, we are not wanting to open that door...

Jestor wrote: I mean, Ive been kind to Kitsu SO far, lol... [/color]

Shhh!! Don't ruin our reputation of being at eachothers throats! No one must know!

And, seriously, lets NOT forget the impact guests like Khaos and Gisteron have... I love these two guys, despite occasional head-bumping... I even find that fun, lol...

Since this has been brought up.

I have also been around longer than TOTJO, since were throwing that around. Most other places, I lead the various Dark forums in some capacity. Even at other Jedi sights, I am part of councils that make policy. I have irrevocably changed the Dark path to what it is in its current form.

So. What.

None of that matters. It really doesnt. Not here especially at a Jedi site with little regard for the Dark path( in fact, some hold it in disdain and ridicule)I also do not go to new Dark orders and talk about how long I have been on the path and that I should be in some position of higher influence.

I earn my place wherever I go, online or off, with what I like to think is current quality content, and actions.

Keep in mind that there are several areas not available to me simply because I am a guest.

However, I understand that I will not meet certain criteria, and so ,will not be allowed access.

I have no shortage of influence, or a voice here, or do not feel as if I do.

I do moderate myself to a degree, if only so that I can continue to have voice here in some capacity.

I work extremely well within my limitations here. I do not expect rank, favors, or rules to be bent, in fact, I have been temporarily banned no less then three times.

Doesnt matter how long I have been around.

I have received no special privileges, nor do I expect any simply for being around a long time.

Or for past actions that have nothing at all to do with this place, here and now.