Taking Part in the Process...As an experienced Jedi

I've had a lot to think about today. Jestor has made me aware of certain things, facts that I had overlooked, understanding the conflict I was inducing my posting links to other Jedi sites. This post really isn't even about that, but the underlying truth is, I could be doing much more good here if I were to truly became involved and stop fighting the system. You could say that the old expression applies: if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Not that I felt I was in competition with TOTJO, but I certainly wasn't an ally either. Which brings me to my question...

As a man who's been following the Jedi path for roughly 18 years, if I were to truly join TOTJO, follow the rules, rise through the ranks, where in the world would I begin? I can prove my experience, specifically with all my writings and my history, with references, etc. Not that I'm trying to take the easy route by skipping past certain assignments or whatever, but I felt that some things would be redundant or even a waste of time. I may be making assumptions on this, but I wouldn't really know.

So, can anyone give me some advice?

As one in the exact same position

All I have to say is this: You lose nothing by participating.

Some very new groups are popping up without any care or second thoughts as to what they effect on others. They just want their fingers in the pie and instead of participating and sharing the pie, they stole it all.

There are many many MANY Things here at TOTJO that I am not in favor with or think could be done better. However....I lose nothing by showing my support and participating.

Yea...I've been around since 1998-ish
Yea... I have gone through the whole > Initiate > Apprentice > Knight and even Council Member role several times in my days.

Dosn't mean I can't humble myself to do it again and support the groups that are still active an alive.

A Jedi Seeks Knowledge and Training.

Whats your next move?

This is not a perfect system. It's improved over time and with the input of many thoughtful and dedicated people. I'm confident it will continue to improve. I look forward to you being a part of this.

Someone could graduate from Harvard Law School with Honors. They could practice law for 20 years in New York then serve as a judge on the state supreme court there for 10 years. They decide to move to Texas and want to open a law practice. To get a licence to be a lawyer in Texas they still have to pass the Texas Bar Exam (which unfortunately does not cover how to make a perfect vodka martini).

I have a feeling things will work out much better than what you're imagining. Much better.

What is it that a rank gives you that you otherwise wouldn't have? Sure, if you want internal privileges, like access to particular subforums and organisatory rights, those are tied to your TOTJO internal credentials. If you want to preach or to wed on behalf of TOTJO, that too is not something you get to do without holding the approval of TOTJO. Would you feel like more of a Jedi for being part of this particular church and do you feel at all inferior for not being? And if it is all the same, then why bother taking that route? I mean, if you like to, by all means, go ahead. It just sounds like for not being able to compete you now feel obliged to join and I'm curious why you feel those to be the only two options. Your effect on the world is a function of your investment in it, and while your oaths and accomplishments may motivate you to part of them, at the end of the day who you are and what you do is more out there than in here and even in here rank is a formal indicator, not a measure of how much you invest or contribute to the community. Now, again, if you just want to join up, and your inability to compete with a place this large is more of an excuse than a motivator for it, by all means, please, join. Take a seat, grab a cookie. Welcome.

Br. John wrote: This is not a perfect system. It's improved over time and with the input of many thoughtful and dedicated people. I'm confident it will continue to improve. I look forward to you being a part of this.

Someone could graduate from Harvard Law School with Honors. They could practice law for 20 years in New York then serve as a judge on the state supreme court there for 10 years. They decide to move to Texas and want to open a law practice. To get a licence to be a lawyer in Texas they still have to pass the Texas Bar Exam (which unfortunately does not cover how to make a perfect vodka martini).

I have a feeling things will work out much better than what you're imagining. Much better.

Dear master John, I have told it before, a good wile back. I find this system a pearl of the internet.
The temple using only words brings a community together, with a strong leadership ofcource. This temple is able to have open discussions without much trouble, I have seen communities with only trouble.. communities that only cry and bring hard words on even the lightest discussion. Even if this is not a 'perfect' system, I would not have it otherwise. This site and system is a piece of art that is able to do what it is intended to do. I find that near perfect eh?

streen wrote: As a man who's been following the Jedi path for roughly 18 years, if I were to truly join TOTJO, follow the rules, rise through the ranks, where in the world would I begin? I can prove my experience, specifically with all my writings and my history, with references, etc. Not that I'm trying to take the easy route

To say that every master will always be a student, no person is to old or to young to learn. If I may give my opinion, master John, learning is not only about Jediism, it also learns about and with the community in doing so.
I find it important that high ranked members are well known in the community. We learn from each other, The fact that all Jedi Knights have been trough a lot to learn about Jediism and the community improves their quality of teaching as well. Improved learning will result in a healthy temple.
Jediism at the temple in my eyes is equal important as the community itself. If not, who would teach Jediism?

I am thankful that TOTJO will be improved, may the force guide you all,

~ Aqua :blush:

Where to begin?

Ditch the care about ranks.
Discard the concern for proving experience.

Asses the real reason you are here. What is it you care about most regarding your path.

Go from there.

Sometimes it is good to start at the beginning. And undergo a bit of new training. Perhaps your head needs softening. Stand on it for a bit lol.

Nothing is ever perfect you can eather help and make it better or you can sit and watch, eather way it will happen. Which part do you wish to play?

i started my own study of what it means to be a jedi many many, years ago, as an individual
not associated with any groups and not assuming to myself the title of MASTER or LORD or any such thing - JEDI was (and IS) quite enough of a challenge

though i might come across as a know-it-all, i am and will always be, a padawan

and i have much much more to learn than i do to teach and regardless of how my online persona is interpreted, i accept this fact happily, and sincerely hope that i never get so confident in my own wisdom that i forget it

i do not expect to be addressed as anything more prestigious than an equal (one who may or may not be making sense at the given moment)

obviously i cant speak for totjo, im just sharing my own personal response here in the hope that its relevance to OP is understood

I would like to ask a small question streen, If I am allowed to ask ofcource :blush: Is there some written history of that what you have been doing, websites posts, some kind of journals we could read. Just would like to know you a little bit better whatever the outcome of this topic would be. Do you have verification of any kind?

I could understand that you do not like to answer, or that you do not have, I have no problems with that. No worries

Aqua wrote:

Warning: Spoiler!

Streen wrote: I've had a lot to think about today. Jestor has made me aware of certain things, facts that I had overlooked, understanding the conflict I was inducing my posting links to other Jedi sites. This post really isn't even about that, but the underlying truth is, I could be doing much more good here if I were to truly became involved and stop fighting the system. You could say that the old expression applies: if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Not that I felt I was in competition with TOTJO, but I certainly wasn't an ally either. Which brings me to my question...

As a man who's been following the Jedi path for roughly 18 years, if I were to truly join TOTJO, follow the rules, rise through the ranks, where in the world would I begin? I can prove my experience, specifically with all my writings and my history, with references, etc. Not that I'm trying to take the easy route by skipping past certain assignments or whatever, but I felt that some things would be redundant or even a waste of time. I may be making assumptions on this, but I wouldn't really know.

So, can anyone give me some advice?

I would like to ask a small question streen, If I am allowed to ask ofcource :blush: Is there some written history of that what you have been doing, websites posts, some kind of journals we could read. Just would like to know you a little bit better whatever the outcome of this topic would be. Do you have verification of any kind?

I could understand that you do not like to answer, or that you do not have, I have no problems with that. No worries

hehe.....He has a ton And if he is wiling to share...Id love to know this answer as well. I have several of his old writings at Just Jedi....but would LOVE to add to the library.

If...your willing...Streen Message me!

Seems to me that the best place to start is always at the beginning

I rose to 3rd degree blackbelt and then started in a slightly different style, it was refreshing to wear the white belt again Sometimes being at the beginning can give your fresh eyes.

The past is the past.

What would you say to those that know nothing of the Jedi path in the last 2 decades?

They will only judge you as you are presently, and if all that will ever amount to is tales of the past, well, I myself have been on this path quite a long time now, and even in my case, I would rather be judged by my present actions, then past writings.

If only because one time, someone quoted a lecture I had written ten years ago in regards to something I had said presently, calling me a hypocrite, etc. To which I simply replied that my path is ever changing and evolving, and so, who I am today is not who I was ten years ago, nor should I be measured by that, nor would I want to be. Are you not be different from your past writings, thoughts, and actions? If not, then that in itself needs to be addressed.

I always question people who can only speak in the past tense of actions, or experiences. By and large it speaks of stagnation, as if your have no new stories, or experiences, present ones, or are not making any, then you are not growing.

You are proud of your past obviously. Still, I see no reason why you feel it should afford you any leeway on present actions and experiences. Some, may not even go back half of half that far, and for many of us that do...Well, speaking for myself, I simply dont care.

You are attached to the past in what seems to be an unhealthy way.

I have no interest in what someone once did.

I have no interest in what someone will do.

I am interested in what they are doing NOW.

Thats worth talking about.

Khaos wrote: The past is the past.
They will only judge you as you are presently

Though I could agree with that opinion, I can not agree with your opinion. :blush: I have to mention that the Temple of the Jedi Order is bound to rules, and how good a persons intentions may be, I think that it would not change the policy. Judgement is not only based on how we are, but also on where we stand on the ladder. How unfair this may sound to some.. Please correct me if I tell rubbish, it will be appreciated by me.

Aqua wrote:

Khaos wrote: The past is the past.
They will only judge you as you are presently

Though I could agree with that opinion, I can not agree with your opinion. :blush: I have to mention that the Temple of the Jedi Order is bound to rules, and how good a persons intentions may be, I think that it would not change the policy. Judgement is not only based on how we are, but also on where we stand on the ladder. How unfair this may sound to some.. Please correct me if I tell rubbish, it will be appreciated by me.

You have completely lost me on what your trying to convey.

Intentions are all well and good, but the road to hell is paved with them so im told.

Actions will always speak louder than words, and results will always say more than intentions about an individual.

I think he means influence here is directly correlated to what rank you have.

that would depend on what one means by "influence"

if you want the title or the "authority" then do the work that is set out for earning it

if you want to be some kind of positive influence then do your best to learn from others and to participate in a way that gets people to think

Letting someone skip ahead in rank because of what they have said in the past (when they refused to take the full commitment) sets a dangerous precedent, in my opinion. Will someone who has written books of theory in the past be allowed to skip ahead to Bishop or to the Council based on the same standards? Will we let them train newbies? Many people have had the same ideas about life for as long as the internet has been around. Do they all get bumped to the top? How frightening to suddenly have strangers coming in and taking over an organization where you've pledged your loyalty and trust for years!

There is something to be said for the length of the journey, for proving your sincerity over time. I don't think past writings should be considered at all.

...said the mighty novice, whose opinion is worth as much as what is circling the bottom of her coffee cup xD

Not being a part of the community does not mean that someone has not been following "the path"...

It means that: 1. We brought no prejudice toward other members or sites out there... 2. It means to us, our ideas are new and this is exciting... 3. And, the lack of "acceptance of what IS" and the "intolerance toward others" is flabbergasting if you think about it... lol...

++++++++++
A common thing I see "old guard" members say, is "ugh, I've done all this!"

One of the first things I discuss with apprentices, is how we have changed throughout our lives...

How a book/movie/subject will mean different things to you at different points in your life...

The movie Madagascar was great, as an adult, there are some adult jokes we missed as kids...

I see things in movies I miss, (such as the Twilight line in the other thread), and catch things I've missed, all the time....

Who doesn't like learning something new? Lol...

++++++++++
I agree with Khaos...

"Who are you today?"

Our definition of Jedi here doesn't include opportunities for learning being a "waste of time".

Streen - I for one would love to read and learn from what you would write in your IP and Apprenticeship journals I don't know what your time constraints are like but I can't imagine the IP would take you that long . . . and I'm sure you'd have a lot of flexibility in an Apprenticeship to pursue studies that would be entirely consistent with where you are at now. I apologise for my short-sightedness but I can't see what you'd have to lose!