The light of islam (ugh everyone is a critic)

This is partly a response to the thread about changing the name and people saying allah and god are two different things and saying the word infidel.

Now I will tell you what Islam actually is summed up.

It is Islamic belief simply that there is only one god that governs the world and everything in it. One god that all people should bow (this is the SAME god that christians believe in and jewish believe in.) "Most people ask well why do you not call God God? Everyone calls God God?" In reality that is a very misunderstood fact God is translated to fit a language. In english god is god but Christians and Jewish in the middle east still call "God" Allah. "God" in christian terms name changes per language and region.
In Islamic traditions everyone in every country who is of Islamic refer to God not as YHWH (as judiasm translates the holly name) or JHVH (as christianity translates it) but as Allah.
In Islam we also believe that everyone was born into Islam and even Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (list goes on) are all Islam. Even before Islam was named the basic religion was always there but we put a name onto it. It is the basic form of worshipping a single god. It is not hating infidels it is not dogmas it is only worshiping the creator and noone else (which was what all the prophets had done even Jesus.) Now back in that time they didn't have a name for such religion (ok perhaps you can call it Judiasm but Judiasm also had customs and such where the principle idea would nowadays by Muslims be know as Islam.) I repeat the basic ideas of Islam is the worshiping of a single god, the one god (I keep repeating this because I know people are going to be like "I and no one was ever Islam!" and I don't think no matter how many times I state this it will ever change that.

So how does the Quran differ from The Holy Bible? It's simple all prophets are the same, every person mentioned is the same (just translated to Arabic because it is a middle eastern religion) but they never show the prophets sin and make them see more as role models to live up to. The second only real difference is Christ isn't a messiah in Islam he is a great prophet. Oh and there is muhhamad and even as a Muslim I am not a big fan of him (simply because he wrote books after the quran that goes against the quran, in the quran it believes all abrahamic religions should live in peace and acceptance and infidels are merely people who don't believe in Islam but should still be accepted. The writings afterward created infidel into a bad term and it became more of Islam is the only true religion. And he married a 10 year old at 45 by abusing his power.) So anyways the core works of Islam, the quran, is a beautiful form of poetry created to lift understanding above normal comprehension. You do not learn by reading but truly benefit by hearing it sung (which is hard to hear unless you speak arabic.)

There is 5 pillars you MUST follow:
Proclaiming God is the only God and pure.
Giving to those who are needy and/or hungry
Purifying oneself through fasting (such as in Ramadan)
Completing a pilgrimage through Makkah if you are financially and physically able to do so
(don't look on wikipedia it is all wrong on there)
More in depth look: http://www.islam101.com/dawah/pillars.html

5 tenets
God is the only God
Muhamad was the LAST of the prophets and that all prophets of christianity and Judiasm are all prophets to respect as well
The Quran is the LAST of the sacred books (notice how it says books) which contains the Torah, Psalms, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ
Life on Earth is a test and only a preparation for the after life to come. Those who adore Allah (YHWH and JHVH aka GOD in general) obey the Koran by doing good deeds, and fulfill the 5 pillars of Islam. Which include not drinking, not gambling, and not eating pork (I can follow this and I did for a time but it became a problem in my life and my fiance was actually MAD at me for not eating Pork because she had so many Filipino recipes she wanted me to eat so I made a decision to stay with 2/3 of these things since it is part of culture and the middle east back then did not have a culture as we do today.)
And Final Judgment will come (aka revalations) where God sends those who praise him to heaven (this I half way support but in the case of pagans or indians they all have similar beliefs and I see them as equals and will go to heaven as well) and the infidels (those who don't believe in God and do terrible deeds) will be sent to an eternal hell. So as I stated I believe if you do right and are a good person no matter what, even if you worship a tree, I believe you will go to heaven (I am a huge believer in karma and a form of reincarnation which I will try to put in the theory in a sermon one day.)

Now so so far Islam is EXACTLY like Christianity except Jesus is not a messiah (he is a holy prophet of great wisdom) and you don't pray to Jesus but straight to God.

What is wrong with Islam? Women are seen as possesions which made sense for their time but doesn't translate well today. Islam isn't the only one tho, read carefully through the Holy Bible the only true good woman is Mary and the rest are prostitutes and sinners, look at Magdalane and Eve! One is called a whore where as all sin originates from her "forcing" Adam (a man) to eat from the forbidden tree. Even stories of Lillith (the woman before Eve) is that of a horrible person who slept with demons after rebelling against Adam and being suppresive to his needs.
Here is a wiki link but google for the plain and simple story of Lillith:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith
The story of Lillith is that of sexist tones from years passed.

Who gives Islam a bad name? Radicals always gives any religion a bad name and I mean ANY RELIGION! Christians in the middle east do equally as much as muslims do because that is just the middle east for you they are in constant turmoil. Even in America I watch a christian channel that has christian news that speaks only bad things about Islam and muslims CONSTANTLY I watch and just laugh at the ignorance of it all. Remember "National burn a Quran day" by that southern baptist? Same disrespectful attitude that TRUE followers of Islam try to avoid and TRUE Christians try to say "I am not apart of that!" Islam promotes peace and even says things to say if someone tries to talk bad about your religion, you never return anger with anger instead you say calmly "I believe in what I believe and you believe in what you do" in so many words. It is a religion of being good to your fellow man and respecting their beliefs as well (which some people lose sight of too easy when they believe they are right trust me I know." Understanding others and respecting others is the true way of Islam.

I call God, God constantly because I know ignorance is a dangerous thing, I say Allah too much I lose peoples respect and they look down on me eventhough I follow all those tenets and pillars. I pray and I even feed the needy time to time when I get stop in the streets. I am truly a good person but just because I call YHWH Allah I instantly get talked down to or ignorant people see me as a sinner.

So if you have any questions I will gladly tell you the answer but please I never respond to anti islamic remarks so don't bash on here.

God bless you all and please read all the way through before posting

I think you summed it up pretty well. Islam is just as rubbish as christianity and Judaism. Long live Jediism.

they never show the prophets sin and make them see more as role models to live up to.

Depends on the definition of sin. In north american and european jurisdictions, we'd be talking about multiple life sentences or death penalty where applicable.

ren wrote: I think you summed it up pretty well. Islam is just as rubbish as christianity and Judaism. Long live Jediism.

they never show the prophets sin and make them see more as role models to live up to.

Edit: I wrote a long message about ignorance and everything but honestly one persons opinion is not a large number and as such doesn't deserve a diatribe. I have seen because of Christianity, Judiasm, and Islam we have great people in the world (not necessarily famous but good moraled people who have great stand on life). We have a code that goes thounsands of years. A place we can call home even when we feel we are alone. Learn to love your fellow man and their belief and life will be more than a black hole of existance. End of story
Maybe you should re look at your main page for starters this:
There is no Ignorance; There is Knowledge.
And there is a few more you should already know, if not just look

And i know your going to see this as a joke but I hope one day you find a path that you can feel whole and happy with as us "rubbish" people who actually believe in something other than "We are here everyone is wrong". Heck and you know what I hope God blesses you and your family and you all have a good long life.

Hi. I think that that sums it up well. I practiced Islam at one time and love the Qur'an especially when heard. It's beautiful even though I don't understand it most of the time. My main issue and the reason I left Islam had to do with culture. It's not about me not liking Arabs, Persians, Indians, etc. I have friends of all walks of life and from many places around the world. My issue was that, when I was beginning to practice Islam, my prayers were in English because I didn't know the words from the Qur'an. I found an English translation online and used it for my prayers for a time while I was learning the Arabic. I loved that the Muslims were so quick to treat me like family. Well, at least until I wanted something more than what I was finding in the Qur'an. I read the Bible because I wanted to keep searching for truth and completely lost any support I might have had from the community.

I appreciate that you talked about the God/Allah concept. There are lots of people in thi country who will not see it no matter what anyone says. It's one of the reasons I left my last church. The pastor was bashing Islam from the pulpit. I agree about Muhammad too. I think the hadith, or sayings of the prophet, were more cultural than religious. One I was told was that I couldn't sing in public because I'm a woman. Do you know where that is? I couldn't find that one anywhere.

I just have a question though. How would you fit Jediism into Islam or do you plan to? I guess for me, I can't get past the aspect of the divine. In Islam, Allah is All-knowing, the All-seeing, etc., but he is still in Heaven, right? I choose to believe that we are, you are, I am divine. The Force is around and within us. It makes perfect sense to me as someone who uses the surrounding energy for healing work.

I have one other question. I'm not bashing. i just would love to hear an explanation of this because it confuses me. If Allah is al-Rahman and al-Rahim, the Gracious and Merciful, why is there a Hell-Fire. I understand justice, but that seems a little harsh. I have the same question for the Christians. It just feels like, "I love you unconditionally. Oh. You don't believe in me? You didn't follow me? Okay. You will burn forever in eternal punishment. Sorry. You should have listened." Again, no hatred or anger in this. I just interpreted it that way and would like an explanation for it. It just seems to open a lot of doors to judgment. Anyway, tak care. Thank you for this post. I'm glad Islam is starting to come on the scene. May the Force be with you.
Leena

I found it felt very much like a more modern (relatively speaking) version of the Old Testament, and that it didnt add much of anything to my path. I'll hope to re-read it again soon since its been ages.

How I read it was to download a full text copy, and then use find and replace to automate the change of 'Allah' to 'God'. It just made it much easier for me to read.

Leena wrote: Hi. I think that that sums it up well. I practiced Islam at one time and love the Qur'an especially when heard. It's beautiful even though I don't understand it most of the time. My main issue and the reason I left Islam had to do with culture. It's not about me not liking Arabs, Persians, Indians, etc. I have friends of all walks of life and from many places around the world. My issue was that, when I was beginning to practice Islam, my prayers were in English because I didn't know the words from the Qur'an. I found an English translation online and used it for my prayers for a time while I was learning the Arabic. I loved that the Muslims were so quick to treat me like family. Well, at least until I wanted something more than what I was finding in the Qur'an. I read the Bible because I wanted to keep searching for truth and completely lost any support I might have had from the community.

I appreciate that you talked about the God/Allah concept. There are lots of people in thi country who will not see it no matter what anyone says. It's one of the reasons I left my last church. The pastor was bashing Islam from the pulpit. I agree about Muhammad too. I think the hadith, or sayings of the prophet, were more cultural than religious. One I was told was that I couldn't sing in public because I'm a woman. Do you know where that is? I couldn't find that one anywhere.

I just have a question though. How would you fit Jediism into Islam or do you plan to? I guess for me, I can't get past the aspect of the divine. In Islam, Allah is All-knowing, the All-seeing, etc., but he is still in Heaven, right? I choose to believe that we are, you are, I am divine. The Force is around and within us. It makes perfect sense to me as someone who uses the surrounding energy for healing work.

I have one other question. I'm not bashing. i just would love to hear an explanation of this because it confuses me. If Allah is al-Rahman and al-Rahim, the Gracious and Merciful, why is there a Hell-Fire. I understand justice, but that seems a little harsh. I have the same question for the Christians. It just feels like, "I love you unconditionally. Oh. You don't believe in me? You didn't follow me? Okay. You will burn forever in eternal punishment. Sorry. You should have listened." Again, no hatred or anger in this. I just interpreted it that way and would like an explanation for it. It just seems to open a lot of doors to judgment. Anyway, tak care. Thank you for this post. I'm glad Islam is starting to come on the scene. May the Force be with you.
Leena

These questions make me smile because people want to learn and understand something new! (or kinda new in your case haha)
Anyways yes I do not agree with the women thing or the arabic is the chosen language. Women are downsized in all abrahamic religions as I stated but it is only really kept in Islam because of the middle eastern culture which allows it. I am pro equality because I was born and raised in the US in a christian family. As for Arabic as the chosen language this seems silly to me because any idea of "chosen religion" reminds me of Babylon in the bible, where they all gathered to build a tower to heaven and God split them all up and made them learn separate languages to prevent that from happening again.
As for the bible reading and bad "mojo" involved with it I am one muslim who belives true understanding of the world comes from understanding of all the world and their religions. It is best to accept all ideas of people and all their religious ideas for what you may find true hey may not and would you want them to say your wrong? Of course not! So the first part about finding common ground would be reading their texts as well and maybe you would find that their religion makes more sense to you than the one you currently practice. That is how I found Islam because when I began reading about it it was like everything I ever seen needed in christianity was actually there and it was like it just fit so well. I ended up talking and asking a muslim online for hours up til 3am and then I said the "oath" that made me accept Islam as my one true religion.
As for Islam and the Jedi path they are practically one and the same believe it or not. I am sure everyone knows assassin creed the game right? Well the first one spoke of the Hashshashins of the alamut who were actually muslims. In fact they were called the Nizari. Now the Nizari believed that the Quran had 2 ways to read it. The normal word for word to help guide them and the esoteric meaning that was read in between the lines. Now this esoteric was hidden in the quran through symbolism and such and you had an Imam (Islamic religios leader of the Nizari) who would study and find these hidden meanings. One of them fits the ideas of the force, it is the belief not only is god the creator but he sustains everything in the universe because he is a type of energy that penetrates everyone and everything. To the Nizari Allah/God WAS the force! It is an amazing idea in my theology because it explains so much to me which I want go into extreme details here I will send in a sermon about the "interchangability" of the force when the time is right and I have time haha.
As for hell well that is a place for BAD people Muhamad said that if you do a bad deed you get one point against you, do a good deed you earn two points, think of a bad deed and not do it you get a point, and think of a good deed and not do it you get a point. So if you are thought to go to hell in Islam you must be doing a aweful lot of bad deeds but I personally belive in the jewish idea of the afterlife. Jewish dont belive in the devil instead when you die you go to a different part of heaven aka you led a near perfect life you enjoy a greater heaven closer to god if you were ok your in the middle, if you were bad you live through the bad things you did and feel sorrow until you work your way up. I have a theory of reincarnation and that but once again another sermon another place lol

Cool. i look forward to reading your sermons. I didn't know about the esoteric meanings of the Qur'an. I practiced Sunni Islam which is extremely strict and follows Muhammad's teachings as close as possible even to the point of not using toilet paper in the bathroom. Yes, that was a real discussion in the mosque one time. I don't know what the water can things look like because I didn't really pay attention to actually following that rule. LOL. I definitely agree that Islam made more sense to me than Christianity. I read the Qur'an right after 9/11 to get an idea of where the hijackers got their information. I still haven't found it. LOL. I'd like to hear more about the esoteric meanings in the Qur'an. I was never exposed to that piece; I only know the literal meanings.
Leena

Leena wrote: Cool. i look forward to reading your sermons. I didn't know about the esoteric meanings of the Qur'an. I practiced Sunni Islam which is extremely strict and follows Muhammad's teachings as close as possible even to the point of not using toilet paper in the bathroom. Yes, that was a real discussion in the mosque one time. I don't know what the water can things look like because I didn't really pay attention to actually following that rule. LOL. I definitely agree that Islam made more sense to me than Christianity. I read the Qur'an right after 9/11 to get an idea of where the hijackers got their information. I still haven't found it. LOL. I'd like to hear more about the esoteric meanings in the Qur'an. I was never exposed to that piece; I only know the literal meanings.
Leena

Unfortunately these are secrets that very few items have been written on the subject and passed down by word of mouth to get info see it as more of a symbol and pull the meanings from there. Remember religion is a guide and shouldn't always be literal instead what you wish to see it as its personal to you

Adder wrote: I found it felt very much like a more modern (relatively speaking) version of the Old Testament, and that it didnt add much of anything to my path. I'll hope to re-read it again soon since its been ages.

How I read it was to download a full text copy, and then use find and replace to automate the change of 'Allah' to 'God'. It just made it much easier for me to read.

My best advice to you is to go with your heart and soul guide you it's almost identical to the holy bible with added items and everything is more based on god himself. Ultimately it's all your decision to tak what you wish from it the best thing would be the charity idea and fasting. The force/god will guide you to what you are destined to follow

Leena wrote: I read the Qur'an right after 9/11 to get an idea of where the hijackers got their information. I still haven't found it. LOL.

I think the "Decleration of Immunity" (immunity from what for doing what!?) has a bit of the stuff which can be intepreted as 'go kill the nonbelievers'. Its not my area but this bit might be one of them;

Yet if they repent, and observe the appointed times of prayer, and give
alms, they shall be deemed your brethren in religion. We distinctly propound
our signs unto people who understand.

But if they violate their oaths, after their league, and revile your
religion, oppose the leaders of infidelity (for there is no trust in them),
that they may desist from their treachery.

Will ye not fight against people who have violated their oaths, and
conspired to expel the apostle of God; and who of their own accord assaulted
you the first time? Will ye fear them? But it is more just that ye should
fear Allah, if ye are true believers.

Attack them therefore; Allah shall punish them by your hands, and will
cover them with shame, and will give you the victory over them; and he will
heal the breasts of the people who believe,
and will take away the indignation of their hearts: for Allah will be
turned unto whom he pleaseth; and Allah is knowing and wise.

Did ye imagine that ye should be abandoned, whereas Allah did not yet know
those among you who fought for his religion, and took not any besides Allah, and
his apostle, and the faithful for their friends? Allah is well acquainted with
that which ye do."

I dont think I've misrepresented the context? In that same chapter is says "for Allah loveth those who fear him." which is why it all felt a bit Old Testament to me. I'm interested in it though to find out if I can pull anything useful out of it.

Here's the problem with that. Well, actually, thank you for pointing out that one. I do remember seeing things like this. The issue is that at least 31 Muslims, not including the hijackers, were killed either on the planes or in the buildings on 9/11. Essentially, it seems as if they killed fellow believers in the name of God.

Adder wrote:

Leena wrote: I read the Qur'an right after 9/11 to get an idea of where the hijackers got their information. I still haven't found it. LOL.

I think the "Decleration of Immunity" (immunity from what for doing what!?) has a bit of the stuff which can be intepreted as 'go kill the nonbelievers'. Its not my area but this bit might be one of them;

I dont think I've misrepresented the context? In that same chapter is says "for Allah loveth those who fear him." which is why it all felt a bit Old Testament to me. I'm interested in it though to find out if I can pull anything useful out of it.

And you can't misinterpret this:
Deuteronomy
Chapter 2
32-37
And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land. 32 Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz. 33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. 36 From Aroer, which is by the brink of the river of Arnon, and from the city that is by the river, even unto Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us: the LORD our God delivered all unto us

Deuteronomy
Chapter 3
1-7
1 Then we turned, and went up the way to Bashan: and Og the king of Bashan came out against us, he and all his people, to battle at Edrei. 2 And the LORD said unto me, Fear him not: for I will deliver him, and all his people, and his land, into thy hand; and thou shalt do unto him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon. 3 So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining. 4 And we took all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. 5 All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many. 6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. 7 But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities, we took for a prey to ourselves

Deuteronomy
Chapter 7


1-6
1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; 2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them: 3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. 4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. 5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. 6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth

And it goes on and on all speaking of killing (both women and children) and pillaging towns in the name of god this is all in the holy bible.

Here is a site that provides lists and lists of references of murdering in the name of god.
http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/terrorism__rape_and_other_cruel_acts_in_the_bible

No religion is perfect and are made by their times for their times.

Yes of course, though that is from the Old Testament which, at least in my intepretation, the NT should be meant to override or update. They are all so old the context they are provided is very out of date these days. Leena mentioned she looked for something and couldnt find it so I was just trying to help.

Adder wrote: Yes of course, though that is from the Old Testament which, at least in my intepretation, the NT should be meant to override or update. They are all so old the context they are provided is very out of date these days. Leena mentioned she looked for something and couldnt find it so I was just trying to help.

I see the nt, and ot one and the same personally because it builds on one another and speaks of the same god anyways in a chronological order. But your right the Old testament god was much more harsh compared to that of the new testament to say the least. He was portrayed as a vengeful deity where as in the new testament he is presented more as a "buddy" of sorts

I have seen because of Christianity, Judiasm, and Islam we have great people in the world

History shows otherwise. the arrival of abarahamic religions always marks the end of civilization. That's true in: America, Europe, middle east, Africa. Asia was recently taken by communism, another form of religion, but adoption, complete rejection and recovery won't take more than a hundred years.

Didn't Jesus say something like "I have not come to change on letter in the Law or the Prophets, but to see them fulfilled". So "overriding" the Old Testament is just Christian justification.

Different times, different stories. Christianity was influenced by Hellenism and Paganism, so no religion stays pure. Most of the things most Christians believe today were introduced by Catholic folklore in its quest to mesh with pagan religions and gain acceptance. The devil and hell weren't even in original Judaism!

Civilizations come and go, but the destroyers have always been men, not religions.

And what are religions made of? The existence of a deity does not make a religion, in the same way the Force didn't wait for Jediism to exist. Christians make christianity, muslims make islam. Considering the importance of religion in the life of the religious, denying its involvement in the negative parts of history and exclusively looking at the positive influences is dishonest at best.

You make a good point Ren.

But rarely does a person burst into jihad or inquisition sporadically. There is usually someone manipulating religious doctrine in their favor, and the ignorant follow through.

Manu wrote: So "overriding" the Old Testament is just Christian justification..

Well I'm not Christian and I havent heard anyone else say it, so I'm not parroting anyones justification - but in my own readings it is the most obvious and meaningul relationship between the two Testaments. The Old Testament needed not be wrong to require overriding, just badly written/transmitted.

ren wrote: Considering the importance of religion in the life of the religious, denying its involvement in the negative parts of history and exclusively looking at the positive influences is dishonest at best.

Only if the person is claiming to represent the religion. Discussing only the positive aspects of a religion is not dishonest IMO (in fact its all I'm interested in) - in the same way as I dont judge a how football team plays based on the behaviour or football skills of its supporters!