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Can You Trust God?
- OB1Shinobi
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6 years 8 months ago - 6 years 8 months ago #279346
by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Can You Trust God?
what about all the Christians that God DIDNT save from the lions?
maybe youre one of them?
trust in god but for gods sakes dont stop rowing, tie your camel, and remember to keep your powder dry
maybe youre one of them?
trust in god but for gods sakes dont stop rowing, tie your camel, and remember to keep your powder dry
Last edit: 6 years 8 months ago by OB1Shinobi.
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6 years 8 months ago - 6 years 8 months ago #279364
by JamesSand
Hubris beyond contemplation to imagine that God is looking out for you
And twice that to imagine that you can comprehend what is best for you in the way that the infinite and almighty does.
God is many things (including but not limited to all things)
however, despite the infinite and all things that God is, God is NOT a giant hand that will descend from the skies to stop a car crash, or pull smoke from your lungs, or rearrange your genes to make you taller, smarter, or less prone to this, that or the other woe.
Replied by JamesSand on topic Can You Trust God?
Anyway, too many bad things have happened to me in my life that I have trouble trusting that God is looking out for me.
Hubris beyond contemplation to imagine that God is looking out for you
And twice that to imagine that you can comprehend what is best for you in the way that the infinite and almighty does.
God is many things (including but not limited to all things)
however, despite the infinite and all things that God is, God is NOT a giant hand that will descend from the skies to stop a car crash, or pull smoke from your lungs, or rearrange your genes to make you taller, smarter, or less prone to this, that or the other woe.
Last edit: 6 years 8 months ago by JamesSand.
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6 years 8 months ago #279400
by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Can You Trust God?
Ever since I saw Tangled, I cannot help being reminded of the central conflict in that movie when ever someone uses the "But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not." line. Oh, you want to venture out of the tower (i.e. think and judge for yourself)? Please, don't be naive. You're little still and dumb and ill equipped, what with being less than perfectly omniscient of all that awaits you out there (and of course we make no effort to educate you on any of it, lest you get cocky and try walking out all the same). No, better stay inside, trust mother instead. Mother knows best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi8kYcl2Y38
Why is it that we recognize the relationship between Rapunzel and her witch mother as abusive from that scene alone, even without the context of the latter exploiting the former for her magic hair (analogous to an addict's relationship with his drug), something for which the victim is at worst to be pitied and at best to be liberated, but yet if the every same occurs between a believer and their religious dogma - or indeed a specific character like a God they believe in - it suddenly becomes something to be respected and left alone and even envied sometimes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi8kYcl2Y38
Why is it that we recognize the relationship between Rapunzel and her witch mother as abusive from that scene alone, even without the context of the latter exploiting the former for her magic hair (analogous to an addict's relationship with his drug), something for which the victim is at worst to be pitied and at best to be liberated, but yet if the every same occurs between a believer and their religious dogma - or indeed a specific character like a God they believe in - it suddenly becomes something to be respected and left alone and even envied sometimes?
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6 years 8 months ago #279401
by JamesSand
If they believe in God as a Character, then perhaps they do need to be liberated.
If they believe in God the same way most people believe in Gravity, then I don't see the harm.
Replied by JamesSand on topic Can You Trust God?
or indeed a specific character like a God they believe in - it suddenly becomes something to be respected and left alone and even envied sometimes?
If they believe in God as a Character, then perhaps they do need to be liberated.
If they believe in God the same way most people believe in Gravity, then I don't see the harm.
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6 years 8 months ago #279410
by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Can You Trust God?
Sure, I suppose there are people who don't view God as a character, but as a force of nature instead. But are they the ones typically questioning God's motives, or even asserting that it has one? Now I haven't conducted any studies on this, but it appears to me that by far the majority of people who believe in a god or more, do believe it to be an agend with power and a will of its own. I would also assert without any further proof that within the context of this thread, we are not primarily concerned with conceptions of God that are not persons by these crucial charcteristics for they would for that reason not be subject to our trust or distrust as an aspect of relationships between persons.
I am furthermore rather confident in saying that insofar as a person, who believes in a personal god for the way most people believe in gravity, exists, they have not done enough to inform the rest of mankind of it yet. I for one have yet to meet anybody like that. But regardless, even if anybody does, what I am criticizing is this specific kind of relationship (or treatment thereof) where the victim is either themselves convinced that blind uncritical trust is paramount or is advised by others to not question or criticize the other party. Whether they believe in that party the way most people believe in gravity should in my humble opinion be unimportant in evaluating the healthiness of that relationship.
I am furthermore rather confident in saying that insofar as a person, who believes in a personal god for the way most people believe in gravity, exists, they have not done enough to inform the rest of mankind of it yet. I for one have yet to meet anybody like that. But regardless, even if anybody does, what I am criticizing is this specific kind of relationship (or treatment thereof) where the victim is either themselves convinced that blind uncritical trust is paramount or is advised by others to not question or criticize the other party. Whether they believe in that party the way most people believe in gravity should in my humble opinion be unimportant in evaluating the healthiness of that relationship.
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- steamboat28
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6 years 8 months ago #279430
by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic Can You Trust God?
"Those who never rebelled against God or at some point in their lives shaken their fists in the face of heaven, have never encountered G-d at all." -- Catherine Marshall
I cannot speak for other texts, but readings of the Christian scriptures encourage questioning and discovering and testing of spirits, rather than a blind obedience.
Furthermore, to the title question, one can trust G-d to be G-d always, in the same way that I can always trust Gisteron to be Gisteron. That speaks nothing of the relationship that Gist's plans may have to my well-being, but knowing him I feel he would attempt to minimize active harm upon my person if he perceived his machinations would lead toward it. Trusting that someone has our best interests is different than trusting them to be who and what they are. That's why scripture encourages us to know G-d, to understand His heart and actions as best our finite minds are able, to love what He loves and to act how He would act. Putting our wills in accordance with G-d's will removes any conflict of interest that may exist there, and G-d's plans will work toward a better future for all, rather than just ourselves.
This is the way G-d is spoken of in Christian scripture.
I cannot speak for other texts, but readings of the Christian scriptures encourage questioning and discovering and testing of spirits, rather than a blind obedience.
Furthermore, to the title question, one can trust G-d to be G-d always, in the same way that I can always trust Gisteron to be Gisteron. That speaks nothing of the relationship that Gist's plans may have to my well-being, but knowing him I feel he would attempt to minimize active harm upon my person if he perceived his machinations would lead toward it. Trusting that someone has our best interests is different than trusting them to be who and what they are. That's why scripture encourages us to know G-d, to understand His heart and actions as best our finite minds are able, to love what He loves and to act how He would act. Putting our wills in accordance with G-d's will removes any conflict of interest that may exist there, and G-d's plans will work toward a better future for all, rather than just ourselves.
This is the way G-d is spoken of in Christian scripture.
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