What IS Relgion?

So, for those who It IS for, this is for you.
What truly IS RELIGION or spirituality? Here, in our ORDER, we have Knights and Clergy. Whats the diffrence between them? Is there? For us directly. I know and I can read books and definitions of things but truly Modern Day Jedi, what is the spiritual side or the religious side of Modern Day Jedi ism? Is there?
What IS religion really?
Does it have a place in our own practices?
Feel free to directly contact me if you like but I really want to know what it means to YOU, not what you've been taught...
Feel free to join in how you see fit.
If religion ISNT your thing, well thats ok too, just say so as well. Its ok to NOT have faith as much as it is ok TO have religious practices.
So, what ya think?
DARE TO SHARE?

For me, religion is organized spirituality. Seems counter intuitive, but like training wheels, it has its place. Knights(here or otherwise) and others involved maintain and upkeep that system. Somebody who sets aside time because they believe the system they support can help people and should continue, especially if it helped them.

I would say when you can maintain your spirituality and let your religion go, you have graduated. You are then able to go back and teach, or move on with your life as best suited as you can be in that realm.

There are other reasons people come here(or to any religion, for that matter) but this is the gestalt of its necessity to me.

According to Wikipedia:

Scholars have failed to agree on a definition of religion. There are however two general definition systems: the sociological/functional and the phenomenological/philosophical.

Emile Durkheim defined religion as "a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things, that is to say things set apart and forbidden - beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a church, all those who adhere to them."

Max Lynn Stackhouse, defined religion as "a comprehensive worldview or 'metaphysical moral vision' that is accepted as binding because it is held to be in itself basically true and just even if all dimensions of it cannot be either fully confirmed or refuted".

Do you share these?

We as Modern day Jedi can define our own definitions. Its a gift from the Inherent worth we all belive in.
I define religion as ANY PERSONS RELIANCE upon a pivital value or chosen merrit. Does it have to be religious or spiritual in context? Some times Ive met a hard no on that one.


Is the search for VIRTUE spiritual?

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Clergy/123569-a-modern-day-jedi-s-book-of-change-a-shepards-journal
1.
As a human and as a chosen Jedi, we all have the privilege where and what we title "the Force." It can be the idea or/and the ebb and flow- the Way- or the practice- either for character, guidance or even lead. Some parts we may not be able explain, that's ok too! No one Force may be like the other. Simply put, the Force is the way we freely and actually choose to merit. By this, it can never be the same. Our beginning and creation can depend on a choice to seek that which can never be named and experienced fully. These are steps towards understanding.

Compared to what it isn't.... yea probably a set of imagined affordances which are participated with in some systematic way.
Not to suggest it's fantasy, but rather they need to be imagined because they are not tangible.... which is where the belief enters the equation. And what elevates this above other things is they are believed to be affordances; ie in existence (even if not tangible).
Spirituality probably could differ slightly in that it might work with the same definition but not project that belief outside of the body....
..which begs the question, could that definition of spirituality be extended from body to all known things (ie pantheism etc) and therefore religion therefore just be the unknown (ie supernatural) constructs.
At the moment I don't like the distinction (because of my Force belief) and therefore agree with the 'religion is organised spirituality' approach.

What part is intangible in religion?

Did you write inside of my post again? LOL

Please understand I love it when you post Rugadd...


What would the training wheels on religion be? For what purpose? To only remove itself from the equation and leave what? What is it religion does for us? For you ?


I think i did miculpa

“I don’t like to look at the science parts” he said “I feel that takes away from the spirituality of it.”

This is a quote from a new journal im digging right now...

Does Religion need explanations to merit? Is religion based on experience or understanding or a bit more?

What would the training wheels on religion be? Practices designed to cultivate well being and altruism, or simpler: training to uplift humanity, including ourselves.

For what purpose? To curb destructive behavior that harms ones self or the society in which they live.

To only remove itself from the equation an leave what? I would not use the word "only" here: our life's journey is never an "only". What it would leave(ideally IMHO) would be the habits of a way of living that cares for and improves the quality of life for oneself and those around them. One would have trained enough that they do not need to train anymore: it flows on its own.

What is it religion does for us? Too open ended, really. It can do a lot for us. Or against us. Depends on the individual circumstances.

For you(me)? I like watching people and reading their perspectives. Places like TOTJO allow that. So in my case, entertainment value. That and the Star Wars reference. So cool.

Ha fresh perspectives, get em while they're hot!!! GET EM while we got em!!! lol

"To only remove itself from the equation an leave what? I would not use the word "only" here: our life's journey is never an "only". What it would leave(ideally IMHO) would be the habits of a way of living that cares for and improves the quality of life for oneself and those around them. One would have trained enough that they do not need to train anymore: it flows on its own."

I do LOVE this part.

The Journey is never, "ONLY"... what a concept, please, thank you.
Thats mine forever

What of the relationships we create in our search and stay with religion? Do we use religion as a tool or as something else? Have we as INDIVIDUALS understood the need or not need for us our self's? hmmm Its like saying have we answered that for our own practice? Do we take every one els's definitions or word on this? I don't lol
Tools
How do you complain about the tools when nothing is built? Religion is a tool that can be used in many way and IS used. Right now as we speak.
When does experience over take explanation? Does explanation take over experience?

I've never been a fan of religion. I realize that this website is based on a religion, but I think that much of what has been accomplished here could have been done without the religious structure.

I suppose I'm of this perspective because growing up I was forced into Catholicism, later on there was born-again Christianity, etc. When I was old enough to make my own decisions, I started studying Taoism, but was later disappointed to see that there was a strict religion underneath the philosophies I was reading about.

I think ideas are good enough. Philosophy can be learned and taught without the rules/restrictions/regulations of religion.

You do realize that we are first and foremost a church right? Literally we (as a group) would not exist without the idea of religion. And if the temple didn’t exist, none of our accomplishments would either.

@Zero

TotJO is, but Streen comes from a time when Jediism and Jedi Realism as terms didn't exist. We were simply "the Jedi Community". Jedi as a religion was only considered such by a very small group of people- and they didn't even voice it to others. The concept took off and was acceptable after the 2001 census, but before that it was largely a Philosophy that people could contemplate and learn about. That's why there was an entirely new term developed to separate Old Guard members from Religious followers (it's Jedi Realism, and later Opie came up with Pragmatic Jedi to divorce their understanding of the Force from the other two schools of thought).

In truth, this order wouldn't exist without the prior work done by orders like the ones Streen started out with (retroactively referred to as a "Jedi Realist" order). They eventually culminated in two groups that would later have a major influence on the structure here at TotJO: Jedi Sanctuary (where we get the 16 Teachings from) and The Jediism Way (where we get the 21 Maxims from).

Streen wrote: I've never been a fan of religion. I realize that this website is based on a religion, but I think that much of what has been accomplished here could have been done without the religious structure.

I suppose I'm of this perspective because growing up I was forced into Catholicism, later on there was born-again Christianity, etc. When I was old enough to make my own decisions, I started studying Taoism, but was later disappointed to see that there was a strict religion underneath the philosophies I was reading about.

I think ideas are good enough. Philosophy can be learned and taught without the rules/restrictions/regulations of religion.

Thanks again Streen

We are a Church and much as we are a Order. Think about that. Here, we have the OPPORTUNITY to take these paths, they are never mandated or even Forced. To be able to ESTABLISH common paths, I think is a good thing and to maintain them is even .. a good thing to cultivate. As a Modern day Jedi,I have rarely understood when THOSE THINGS are for others people .. where does the need to TEAR down what's established come from??? Religion seems like a pretty basic " if it's your thing or not.." hu? Why tear down or un do a path some one else may want to take or will...
Or has...
Religion... I've met few mature ideas about it. I've met few people who can sing ANYWHERE and actually worship regardless of ... building or name on the door or site.

It seems as far as paths go , ME and YOU Streen have been down a few of the same roads. I grew up pretty Catholic then born again then a few moments... denomination's then a find and seek for virtue.

Why ask others NOT to go down paths we needed? Why shunn questions we had to answer for our selfs?

Religion without the focus CAN be a pursuit for virtue that can lead to many places. Been there, done that. Still on the Ox.
Places like this TRY to be the examples of what CAN be. If we can be a church we can be a Order as well. We can be anything really.. together. Even Jedi

Streen wrote: I think ideas are good enough. Philosophy can be learned and taught without the rules/restrictions/regulations of religion.

Does a religion require dogma (which I assume is what you are talking about here) to be a religion and still function toward its philosophical and spiritual goals?