materialism

I'm very new here but in short space of time that I have been a part of the temple I get the feeling materialism is very much frowned upon. in the lectures I've listened to by John Campbell he seems to really take a stab at the human desire for money. So far in life though I would say I've really been provided for entirely for by my parents and it would be very easy for me to say "I'm not materialistic" or that other people shouldn't people be materialistic, what's more Campbell seems to have sold a lot of books and I can't imagine that he was particularly short of cash either. If it is really so easy for me or anyone else to say don't obsess over money, purely because I have it, should I, or anyone else who has money, be saying it at all?

ah, i have no money...i don't obsess over it...i've never been motivated to do things by money...i think it's fine to have things and to want things...but don't let that desire turn to greed...terrible things are done because of greed(the uncontrolled desire to aquire)...if i have, i'm more than willing to give, if i don't have, i don't invest any concern into it...why worry about what you do not have when the energy is best spent on what you do have(life,love, etc)

it's not that materialism is frowned upon...it's that what can result from it is frowned upon(greed/covetry) since it can lead to dark and terrible things...

I don't think that people here are frowned upon for having money, as such. And let me just say, I don't have any money! At all! :laugh:

I would suggest that having a job that you don't really enjoy and isn't fulfilling for you or a good use of your skills/talents, but that you just have because it pays well, goes against the ideals that we look for in Jediism.

However, if you get paid well for doing something that you do enjoy and is a good use of your talents, or if you are provided for by parents who are happy to do so, or have an abundance of money for any other good reason, that's fair enough.

I would say that what matters is what you DO with that money. For instance, buying a new high spec computer, and then 6 months later replacing it with the next model, and 6 months later replacing it with the next model, and so on and so on, is not really a good use of money. If I had lots of money, I would suggest that I would use it to do things that would make me feel fulfilled (which I highly doubt that accumulating material possessions would do), and to help others. Not that I'm saying that's what everyone else should do. I'm just suggesting that it is best to find a 'worthwhile' thing to spend the money on, and if you can't - why not save it? There will always be something in the future.

The problem with materialism is that it can start off as 'I would really really like that thing...just that one thing...', and then suddenly it turns into materialism for the sake of materialism. An addiction almost. And that would always be best avoided.

One of the important principles of Jediism is not to become too attached to things, objects, people, ideas etc...

If people find that they require items to bring them happiness then fair enough. If they're happy then I'm all for that!

However, if they find that no matter how much stuff they own and keep buying they don't feel fulfilled or happier then it is time they reassess their priorities...

And we are here to hopefully fill that void...

Attachment and being unable to let go is something we can all do with learning

After we let go of our need for possessions we realise what there is that is really important and lasting

As long as you are happy, and you can honestly stand there and say to yourself that yes you are happy and you feel fulfilled then there is nothing wrong with materialism

But if you don't think that's right for you then it's time to try something different

I am with Akkarin on this one. The only thing I question is:

As long as you are happy, and you can honestly stand there and say to yourself that yes you are happy and you feel fulfilled then there is nothing wrong with materialism

I would caution that the idea of materialism IS the need for stuff. I would say it more that it is OK to "possess" stuff as long as there is no attachment to the stuff.

First of all, I would not call this topic 'materialism'.

Materialism is a philosophical school which stands against 'dualism', which holds that consciousness is immaterial, not strictly dependent on the physical.

But to jump into the topic now, reliance on money is a social cancer. Whereas money was invented to fix fair exchange rates for things : how many pots of grain are worth a camel, or how many chickens for a pig (or a wife -- ) things now represent a value in money. As as such, not even 'real' money, but promised reimbursement values. Basically, in the fiat system, money does not exist, just as matter does not exist, and yet many let it control every aspect of Life.

Credit card purchased happiness dies on the expiration date of the guarantee ...


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3535764476733084568#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVViICWs4dM

Yea, wikipedia distinction is to call it economic materialisim. I think money is a good system to quantize effort into the communal living place.

If you have it and spend it, you wont have it much longer, unless you have a gigantic heap of it. So I tend to think perhaps having lots of money and being materialistic are not the same thing. It just happens that people with lots of money can be more (and indeed the most) materialistic of anyone.... if they choose. This can create emotions in people without a lot of money which lead to inappropriate spending, such as to live beyond their means etc. Materialistic people might be more attached to a dream, then to the materials. Since I am a bit of an efficiency nut, I tend to agree with V-Tog and consider materialism to be a type of wasteful behaviour.

Mace, I am very new to the temple as well so I start off by saying hello and I hope you have found the temple as resourceful, enjoyable, and friendly as I have so far.
As for materialism, I couldn't agree more with Akkarin. I come from a rather not so well off family when it comes to money but I do not believe materialism is frowned upon to that extent. It is the constant desire for more as if there is never enough. Greed is indeed a terrible thing. To possess or obsess over materials is just a common start to greed. But those who do posses or obsess over objects could simply be sentimental or filling a lost desire with a found enjoyment, which in case is not a bad thing. If it makes one happy then so be it just as long as it doesn't harm their selves or others in the process.

thanks for your replies, I don't think of myself as materialistic particularly, the issue I was really trying to raise was the idea of being obsessed with money. Whilst I understand that there is no problem with having money, rather it is how you use it, if you do have it, it's very easy to say to people that don't "oh don't bother yourself over money". Anyways I feel as though my query has been answered now, thanks all