The Jedi and the Bodhisattva

It occurs to me that the idea of the Jedi as a force for good is aligned with the Buddhist notion of the Bodhisattva or otherwise called the enlightening hero... As I go through the initiate program I may elaborate on this. The Bodhisattva embodying the highest form of hero in his/her role of awakening beings from their ignorance. Could the Jedi then be Bodhisattvas? What would you say are the differences if any?

I'm new here... And don't know where else to post discussions, I thought open discussions would be the best place for this topic? It's very confusing... I don't understand what you mean by posting comments only will close the discussion?

Freedom: Open Discussion is a fine place for this topic. The “geometry” poster is spamming and his replies are not really meant to contribute to the discussion.

Would one of the internet wizards confirm that this dudes links are safe to click? Not that i will check them out, lol, i’ll just feel better knowing.

Removed post I didn't confirm the link but it is suspect and against TOS as is

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via GIPHY

Thank you for clearing that up... So back to the topic... Where do the similarities begin and end when comparing the Jedi and the bodhisattva?

I imagine the Buddhist enlightened ones probably not too big on chopping people up with laser swords?

That is a good point... Assuming that Jedi are keen on cutting people up? Don't you think that Jedi would use violence as a last resort... And if someone were so evil that they would harm countless others, don't you think that a bodhisattva may eliminate him, knowing that, that course of action is the only one left? Perhaps taking on the role of Kali the enlightened destroyer with wisdom and compassion in check, otherwise what are the Jedi apart from mindless soldiers? Surely to kill sith or robots is 'excusable'. On the other hand, we are talking about Jedi in this temples context, not George lucases fiction, I am sure non here would 'slice someone up'? Are the 'jedi' in this order after the highest perfection or mere fan boys? What are the majority goals of the members? Is it in line with the Bodhisattva ideals?

Freedom wrote: That is a good point.

Thank you!

Assuming that Jedi are keen on cutting people up? Don't you think that Jedi would use violence as a last resort...

People interpret “last resort” differently.

And if someone were so evil that they would harm countless others, don't you think that a bodhisattva may eliminate him, knowing that, that course of action is the only one left?

Heres an interesting thing about people who profoundly wise: you dont know what they would do. Id have to assume myself as wise as a bodhisattva to answer the question.

Perhaps taking on the role of Kali the enlightened destroyer with wisdom and compassion in check,

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: - As a general rule, i think that people who can imagine themselves to be “compassionate and enlightened destroyers” ought to go outside and play a few rounds of marco polo in the nearest major intersection.

On the other hand, we are talking about Jedi in this temples context, not George lucases fiction, I am sure non here would 'slice someone up'? Are the 'jedi' in this order after the highest perfection or mere fan boys? What are the majority goals of the members?

I couldnt choose which of these two replies was more appropriate so im just gonna say them both and everyone can pick the one they like.

Reply 1: If you cant tell then I cant tell ya. But hey, custom lightsaber threads are pretty popular around here

Reply 2: hold on, let me tap into the hive mind to hear what our queen wants our goals to be— oh wait, we dont have a hive mind because we’re not the Borg.

Is it in line with the Bodhisattva ideals?

This is our Doctrine . It may be more helpful in answering some your questions than you feel i have been.

I think I agree with your premise here at the core Freedom. I have done some Buddhist Studies here through the temple community and I see what you getting at. But, I think to put it into context, yes that myth fits to a point, I see Jediism IRL and the doctrine as drawing a close parallel to the idea of the middle-path Buddhism and the Japanese idea of Jin.

As far as adopting the preemptive destroyer myth I would take issue with that. Is there excuse for any sort of preemptive violence? Certainty one should be aware of threats, and be ready to respond (this is the personal scale, national/global relations are way more complex). Would a Bodhiisattva strike first?

Just some thoughts.

Much Love,
Kobos

I have found many similarities between the Jedi path and the following of Buddha. To better yourself, to live with love and compassion,to relieve yourself of the darker emotions, and to live in peace and harmony with others and the world. To struggle towards enlightenment.
As for the martial side of things, there are buddist monks who train in the martial arts and are practically unequaled in thier mastery.
MTFBWY

Thank you, I liked the last two comments, I assume most on this site are either spiritually or philosophically inclined... Yes we are not a hive mind, but we are a community and as such should be in tune with the general feel of the members. Allen Watts approaches his world views from a Zen perspective and Joseph Campbell draws heavily on vedic mythology, which in this context, draws me to my conclusion that the heroes journey is epitomized by the Bodhisattva ideals. Of coarse Shaolin monks probably inspired the Jedi idea along with the structure of the British Knights. Although the ideology leans heavily towards an Eastern philosophy.
As for the idea of an enlightened destroyer, I am of course not saying that an ordinary mundane person should imagine himself as such, but am talking of an actual enlightened being, if you could believe that such a being could exist, and not necessarily human, could for instance the actual personification of Kali have the wisdom to destroy compassionately. And in that case, if we have a problem with enlightened beings passing judgement, why do we accept unenlighteded politicians to make those same judgements, is it a case of better the devil we know?

Freedom wrote: ... Assuming that Jedi are keen on cutting people up? Don't you think that Jedi would use violence as a last resort... And if someone were so evil that they would harm countless others, don't you think that a bodhisattva may eliminate him, knowing that, that course of action is the only one left? ...

I recall a discussion along these lines being raised years ago during an introductory course on Buddhism I was attending. The instructor / guide for the class raised several hypothetical questions surrounding the theme of not causing harm to others, along these lines:

"If someone you knew just gave birth, would you kill the baby?". Of course, the universal answer was no.

"What if you knew that child would grow up to become Hitler?" Now, the situation became more grey.

"Then, what if you knew Hitler's own child would discover the cure for cancer?" Even greyer still.

Now, we clearly do not possess the kind of foreknowledge described in these questions, even in the face of events that are less extreme than these imaginary ones. That leaves us to make our moral decisions, adhering to compassion as closely as possible while recognizing that the full outcomes of our actions are unknown to us. With that in mind, I am inclined toward the greatest possible avoidance of causing harm to another. While Kali is one kind of spiritual heroine to many, there are others who renounced violence even though it cost their lives.

The Buddhist doctrine from which the idea of a Bodhisattva comes customarily is focused on the ultimate enlightenment of all sentient beings. That would include the very demons that Kali is said to have slain. In the original Star Wars trilogy, Luke saved his father by refraining from causing his death, not by taking the opportunity to slay him.

Long story short - I believe that the universal salvation or enlightenment of humanity, if there is ever to be one, will not come forth from a heroic destruction of those among us we may regard as evil. It will instead arise from their transformation.

I have heard that the Dali Lama pronounced Steven Seagal to be a deity. A God. At first I interpreted it as evidence of Dali Lama’s corruption because the way the story is told, it was the result of a large monetary donation. My preferred interpretation is that the Dali Lama was trolling Seagal, who by all accounts is if not a sexual predator, very sexually aggressive and extremely narcissistic. I love the humor of assuring a narcissist that they have become a deity.

The first time I encountered the idea of Bodhisattvas it was in the context of an enlightened one who postpones their own Nirvana to stay in the human world of karma and suffering in order to help others reach enlightenment. Like a superhero of Buddhism, these mythical figures are the very embodiment of wisdom and compassion. Later, I learned that anyone can be a Bodhisattva merely by deciding that they want to be enlightened. So it becomes something similar to the Seagal thing in that vanity is a hook and even a sort of trap; people who fancy themselves wise teachers can call themselves Bodhisattvas merely on their perception that they are wise teachers of the poor, unenlightened rabble. Since it is a process that cannot be avoided, I imagine the idea is to encourage them to dive as deeply as possible into their own vanity so they will accelerate the karma of learning humility :lol:

OB1Shinobi wrote: I have heard that the Dali Lama pronounced Steven Seagal to be a deity. A God. At first I interpreted it as evidence of Dali Lama’s corruption because the way the story is told, it was the result of a large monetary donation. My preferred interpretation is that the Dali Lama was trolling Seagal, who by all accounts is if not a sexual predator, very sexually aggressive and extremely narcissistic. I love the humor of assuring a narcissist that they have become a deity.

The first time I encountered the idea of Bodhisattvas it was in the context of an enlightened one who postpones their own Nirvana to stay in the human world of karma and suffering in order to help others reach enlightenment. Like a superhero of Buddhism, these mythical figures are the very embodiment of wisdom and compassion. Later, I learned that anyone can be a Bodhisattva merely by deciding that they want to be enlightened. So it becomes something similar to the Seagal thing in that vanity is a hook and even a sort of trap; people who fancy themselves wise teachers can call themselves Bodhisattvas merely on their perception that they are wise teachers of the poor, unenlightened rabble. Since it is a process that cannot be avoided, I imagine the idea is to encourage them to dive as deeply as possible into their own vanity so they will accelerate the karma of learning humility :lol:

Warning: Spoiler!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2B9jyZTp4w

https://m.sfgate.com/news/article/Movie-Star-Declared-a-Lama-Seagal-elevated-to-2821779.php

Ha, thats hilarious. I wasnt sure if the story was even true, i just thought it was funny. Im not sure what i think of the Dali Lama but it seems to me that if you can make a profit and poke fun at a jackamole like Seagal at the same time, you should go for it.

I used to fight - combative style
Type of thing - for fun with the Army. In my travels and as much as possible - I traveled and met others on many Army post as possible. It was a huge independent type of thing - nothing official. I met Mr Seagal in passing and had the chance to have lunch with the guy at Walter Reed medical Center.
People behind the camera and lights are never as they are in person.
I can say this first hand - at the time I met him- I was not Star struck as much as I would have loved to take him to the mat.
We had lunch with a huge group - hand shakes and we went back to the place where we were all going to compete.

That’s all I got personally on the guy - I wouldn’t mind getting hit by him if I had a change to put him in a rear naked. Lol joking but ya never know all the sides present - especially with cameras and such. Any ways enough of that sorry - de railed a bit . Mi culpa

Freedom:
Could the Jedi then be Bodhisattvas?
Absolutely.
What would you say are the differences if any?
None.

Remember, the name Mahavira, the founder of Jainism and significant player in the Dharmic tradition, means "Great Hero".

Putting feathers up your ass doesn't make you a chicken. Looking at the incidents of fake gurus, does not mean that a guru does not exist. You being your greatest guru. Yes anyone can become a Bodhisattva, just like anyone can become a 'jedi', but not everyone on said path will attain to the fruits of that path. An unenlighteded bodhisattva differs greatly from an enlightened one.
The Hitler baby idea is interesting but flawed in it's assumptions... Hitler's child did not discover the cure for cancer so while I understand the premise for this, it is irrelevant in the situation... Let us ask rather if given the choice to kill him before he gave out an order to commit genocide, or to avert world war 2, would you? If not, it reminds me of hearing a story here in South Africa of a lady being assulted and mugged in a crowed of people, no one lifted a finger to help her. Like antelope who leave the weakest to their demise, thinking phew at least it wasn't me this time. But again I stress that, yes, we ordinary minds have no idea of the repercussions of our actions, but we still take the action of what is appropriate for the situation, and in this way wisdom overrides dogma. How mush more so of a truly enlightened being?

Can we declare Alan Watts posthumously an honorary Jedi?
I think he would have liked that.
Not to mention, many consider him to be a Bodhisattva (albeit a flawed one).