Qui Gon Jinn's Deepest, Darkest Jedi Secret

Qui Gon Jinn's Deepest, Darkest Jedi Secret
BRIAN CRONIN DECEMBER 08, 2018

https://www.cbr.com/qui-gon-jinn-deepest-darkest-jedi-secret/


Part of the message is hidden for the guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Thank you Br John. That is an awesome read and sheds light on a fictional character that has inspired me for many years now. I think we all have that Crisis of Faith once in a while and remembering that we are here to serve the Force is a great reminder that we aren’t perfect but can find comfort in the Force being our moral compass.

Silvermane wrote: Thank you Br John. That is an awesome read and sheds light on a fictional character that has inspired me for many years now. I think we all have that Crisis of Faith once in a while and remembering that we are here to serve the Force is a great reminder that we aren’t perfect but can find comfort in the Force being our moral compass.

You're welcome. There's more. See https://screenrant.com/star-wars-jedi-qui-gon-comic/

Star Wars Confirms Qui-Gon Would Have Saved Anakin

BY ANDREW DYCE – ON DEC 12, 2018 IN COMICS NEWS

It took some time, but Star Wars has officially explained why Qui-Gon Jinn was the only Jedi who could have saved Anakin Skywalker - because only Qui-Gon learned the truth about the Dark Side that Obi-Wan, Mace Windu, and even Yoda never realized.


Part of the message is hidden for the guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Yes, this is a wonderful read.

I often wonder which is more important, being true to my fellow Jedi or doing what is expected of me. Throughout my life, I learned that I could not be a conformist. I just can't do it. My mind only goes to questioning, skepticism, and my natural desire is to scorch anything that is layered in B.S.

So, in this story, I feel like I fit the Qui-Gon paradigm. My loyalty lies with the Living Force, the Force that breathes into every being and non-being. Above all codes, above all laws, above all egos and friendships.

Qui-Gon was not a slave to his moral codes. And, I think the Jedi would do well to remember that the Doctrine should serve us... not the other way around. A good Doctrine is reflective of what we already are and aspire to be.

It is the dutiful soldier who ends up with the blood of his friends on his hands asking "how did it come to this? I was only doing what was asked of me."

Imagine a world filled with Qui-Gons. People with immense wisdom who all have a strong connection to the Force. Does that world need strict rules? Does it need to fix the world around it? Do we have to occupy planets? Do we have to send in soldiers to fight wars?

I don't know the answers. I can only imagine.

Im in the minority i know, but ive been quite disappointed at how the later works morally equalized the jedi and the sith. It doesnt take a genius to see that an emporer cruising around in his death star, destroying planets on a quest to conquer the galaxy is a villain. Nor that it is evil for one to manipulate, deceive, and betray the people who most trust him. And yet, there it is in clear print: no difference between the jedi and the sith. Yoda ends up playing politics and the quality that was supposed to be the very foundation of the jedi archetype,wisdom, was turned into a mirage.
I think that was the wrong direction to take.

That being said, it was a very good article. Thank you for sharing.

For me, I found the revelations of what had happened to the Jedi to be disturbing, as the first trilogy did show their faults rather plainly, but ultimately it added a great deal to the meaningful take-aways. I don't see it as equating the Sith & Jedi - the Sith (in the mythos) embrace destructiveness for personal gain, while the Jedi, for all their good intentions, fall into the dangerous blindspot of "spiritual pride" (aka the belief in the infallibility of their knowledge and initiatory system rather than remaining humbly open to what the Force still has to teach) which ultimately causes their near destruction. In the timeline, the Yoda that is so wise in Empire had a lot of alone time to ponder this mistake, and I see what develops from it (and matures even further in the Last Jedi) as the fruit of hard won experience and brutal soul searching. Some very important lessons in there.

I feel that a huge theme in The Last Jedi is trying to pinpoint exactly what makes the Jedi / Resistance and the Sith / First Order different from each other, given that the Jedi had become enforcers more than protectors, and this sense are very similar to the Sith (Sith enforce their own rule, Jedi enforced the rule of law - often twisted by politics and bureaucrats).

This is why Leia points out to Poe the flaw in destroying the Dreadnought while sacrificing lives.
This is why Rose makes a point of saying to Finn "this is how we win, not by destroying what we hate, but saving what we love".
And this is why Luke faces Kylo Ren, not in the hopes of defeating of him, of enforcing his vision of the Galaxy, but in saving hope in the Galaxy.

Anakin would have not turned to the dark side had any of the Jedi Masters at the time practiced any sort of empathy towards one another.

Since I first heard Qui Gon Jin say, that the "Chosen One" was going to bring balance to the Force, I thought, okay, he is talking about "balance", so what could that mean? I didn´t understand in the first place why everyone in the movies interpreted that like the Chosen One was going to destroy the Sith once and for all. That would not have meant balance but the opposite! Obi Wan says to Anakin "You were meant to destroy the Sith not join them." after he has defeated him. I think, this is something that we can transfer to our daily lives. We are always hoping for things to get "better" or to "stay good". Although on a philosophical level we have realized that there is no good without evil, no light without dark and all the other dualities, we seem not to be able to integrate that in our daily lives. We only want good things to happen. And so do the Jedi in the movies, which makes them a little bit more human and therefore more credible.

TobiasGeisel wrote: Since I first heard Qui Gon Jin say, that the "Chosen One" was going to bring balance to the Force, I thought, okay, he is talking about "balance", so what could that mean? I didn´t understand in the first place why everyone in the movies interpreted that like the Chosen One was going to destroy the Sith once and for all. That would not have meant balance but the opposite!

That is, at least, if we assume balance means darkness is required for balance. Or, at least, equal parts thereof



This image shows what is called asymmetrical balance. A great amount of weight close to the fulcrum of the scales can balance out a smaller amount further out. As you can see, the fulrum, in this example, is moved further the left to help these scales balance.

Now, taking that into account, it is possible to balance scales if all the weight is on on side if the fulcrum (the balancing point) is far enough to the left, simply because the scale weighs enough by itself to be balanced in such a manner.

There are some philosophies on what spiritual balance is. Some believe equal parts dark and light... but what if darkness throws off the balance. Say the scales were as I made the example, adding a single weight to the other side, when the scales are balanced, would throw off this balance. Makes sense so far?

So, Anakin was destined to balance the Force. Lets say this example of 'all being in the light' is balance, and anything in darkness upsets this balance. Yes, joining the darkness and destroying the light massively upset the scales (although, it can be argued that the Jedi Order the prequels were massively corrupt, lost their Path, and even allowed darkness, ignorance, and chaos to thrive if it benefited them), but in his final act he destroyed that same darkness he had joined and, in turn, died himself.

What does that leave? Luke. A Jedi, light... alone, with none to upset the scales again. All the weight has been returned to the light, and the scales balance once more.

Yes, a bit roundabout... but a prophesy, misread, may have been.

How many old ladies can i help to cross the road before i have to kick one into traffic to preserve the balance of the Force?

OB1Shinobi wrote: How many old ladies can i help to cross the road before i have to kick one into traffic to preserve the balance of the Force?

None, please and thank you.

Arisaig wrote:
That is, at least, if we assume balance means darkness is required for balance. Or, at least, equal parts thereof

[/color]

This logic is flawed. If this scale represents all the forces of light and dark then there can be nothing added to the dark that does not come from the light. It will adjust the fulcrum and things will always be balanced no matter how much light and dark is present on either side. Also what is to dictate that light must be the heaver factor in this paradigm? balance can be just as easily achieved if darkness is the prevailing factor and there is nothing to stand against that. This idea that good things should always happen is invalid. Two people go for a job interview. Both can not get the job. There must be a loser. Is that evil or just life in a competitive realm? Bad things happen to good people and there is no ultimate justice to fix it. Its just the way it is. By these measures balance must come in equal measure of both extremes.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Arisaig wrote:
That is, at least, if we assume balance means darkness is required for balance. Or, at least, equal parts thereof

[/color]

This logic is flawed. If this scale represents all the forces of light and dark then there can be nothing added to the dark that does not come from the light. It will adjust the fulcrum and things will always be balanced no matter how much light and dark is present on either side. Also what is to dictate that light must be the heaver factor in this paradigm? balance can be just as easily achieved if darkness is the prevailing factor and there is nothing to stand against that. This idea that good things should always happen is invalid. Two people go for a job interview. Both can not get the job. There must be a loser. Is that evil or just life in a competitive realm? Bad things happen to good people and there is no ultimate justice to fix it. Its just the way it is. By these measures balance must come in equal measure of both extremes.

No. Taking from the light to give to the dark doesn't move the fulcrum, but it does tip the scales.

Two people can go to an interview and both can not get the job as well.

And not getting the job isn't an evil, or wrong, or darkness. Its life, and the Force will guide you to where you need to be.

Hell, it guided me across an ocean to give me my dream job after many denied jobs in my home country...

Overall, this is my view on the Force, Potentium. So yeah, could be balanced if everyone is in darkness, running around murdering each other, claiming personal power rather than helping each other, and playing everyone against each other. But that's not my view, nor would I settle for that reality.

Balance is a juggling act. How much can I exert myself physically without getting ill? How much can I dedicate myself to work without hurting my personal relationships? How many old ladies can I help cross the street without being too late for work and getting fired?

It has nothing to do with committing an equal amount of "evil" actions in order to avoid being "too good".

It has to do with measuring cause and consequence in order to secure the best desired outcome with as little collateral damage as possible... or at least that is what I gathered from the Jedi Order. "Politicians are corrupt, but at least we have a functioning democracy that help billions of being thrive across the Galaxy. Now let's go end that trade dispute before things get out of hand and war comes".

Did Anakin bring balance to the Force? I would bet that prophecy was misunderstood.

I just wanna know how long it took you juggle all that with your feet....

Arisaig wrote: No. Taking from the light to give to the dark doesn't move the fulcrum, but it does tip the scales.

Then how did you determine where that scale fulcrum is? If the fulcrum does not move how do you claim that good is the larger side or even should be the larger side?

Arisaig wrote: So yeah, could be balanced if everyone is in darkness, running around murdering each other, claiming personal power rather than helping each other, and playing everyone against each other. But that's not my view, nor would I settle for that reality.

Everyone or just half the population? Settling for something or not does not change anything. What you are advocating is "might makes right" not good must prevail over dark. If the dark takes over you must be ok with it by this paradigm as it invalidates the Jedi philosophy.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Arisaig wrote: No. Taking from the light to give to the dark doesn't move the fulcrum, but it does tip the scales.

Then how did you determine where that scale fulcrum is? If the fulcrum does not move how do you claim that good is the larger side or even should be the larger side?

I didn't. The world did. We don't settle for a world ruled by injustice, and strive for justice for all. But you'll disagree with that.

And I claim it because that is how I view it. The world, and in turn the Force, does better when people aren't selfish and think of others and the world at large over themselves.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Everyone or just half the population? Settling for something or not does not change anything. What you are advocating is "might makes right" not good must prevail over dark. If the dark takes over you must be ok with it by this paradigm as it invalidates the Jedi philosophy.

No, I don't have to be okay with that paradigm, nor should I, because it would be a massive throwing off of the scales, otherwise balanced in light only.

You do understand how scales work, right? Moving weight about a balanced scale doesn't magically move the fulcrum as well.

And I am not advocating for might makes right. I am advocating for right makes right. If the world tells me murder is okay, is it? No, because it is an injustice to the person I kill and to myself for stooping from my station as a Jedi to partake in what the 'might' says is 'right'.

But, again, my philosophy. I know it isn't yours, Kyrin, nor would you be able to sway me from it.

Arisaig wrote: . We don't settle for a world ruled by injustice, and strive for justice for all. But you'll disagree with that.

We don’t? Are there not injustices done every day? Not only by humans to each other but by disease, natural disaster, accident and unforeseen consequences? How do you avoid or strive to fix all of these injustices that are built into the very fabric of our existence? Pretending they do not exist or discounting them do not make them go away. Life is inherently unfair.

Arisaig wrote: And I claim it because that is how I view it. The world, and in turn the Force, does better when people aren't selfish and think of others and the world at large over themselves.

Can you prove “the force” does better? What does it even mean for the force to “do better”?

Arisaig wrote: You do understand how scales work, right? Moving weight about a balanced scale doesn't magically move the fulcrum as well.

Sure, I get it. But if we are striving for this “better” force as you say, where was it before? Wont making it “better” unbalance it the other way?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: We don’t? Are there not injustices done every day? Not only by humans to each other but by disease, natural disaster, accident and unforeseen consequences? How do you avoid or strive to fix all of these injustices that are built into the very fabric of our existence? Pretending they do not exist or discounting them do not make them go away. Life is inherently unfair.

I agree. It is unfair. Injustices happen all the time, constantly, and everywhere.

But just because they happen doesn't mean we've settled for them. Laws are just one form of fights ng these injustices, as an example.

We can thank our good friend Mr. Dark Side for that, throwing off the balance and tempting people with easy power in exchange for injustices against their fellow man.

Natural Disasters are part of life as well, and these events get worse and worse as selfish men throw off the balance of the world (pollution, global warming, carbon emissions, increasing carbon footprints). Yes, these disasters always happen, but they are getting worse. And if we don't start taking better care of this planet, it'll remove us... and the scales will balance again.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Can you prove “the force” does better? What does it even mean for the force to “do better”?

Nope. But it is my views on this metaphysical energy. Nor do I need to provide proof.

We're not letting another thread by derailed by demanding proof for the un-provable. Thank you.

As you said, its not doing well. It is off balance. So yeah, it can do better.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Sure, I get it. But if we are striving for this “better” force as you say, where was it before? Wont making it “better” unbalance it the other way?

As you said before, life is unfair. Injustices happen. Evil men reign supreme, furthering the problems of the world.

So, yeah, we're upsetting the current balance... which I view as massively thrown off, by encouraging more people to be better, come to the Light, and bring the scales back into balance.

Thanks for your help proving that point! Couldn't have done it better myself!

Arisaig wrote:
Thanks for your help proving that point! Couldn't have done it better myself! [/color]

Claiming victory where none exists is disingenuous. You never answered my question.