Can gift giving be selfish?

I am currently dealing with drama with my family. I have a Mother who likes to give gifts for Christmas and a Sister that thinks my mother is being selfish and that opening "that many presents" is a waste of time for her and her family. She claims that her kids don't like the tradition of each person opening a gift one at a time. While I do agree that it can be time consuming, it makes my mother happy, it doesn't hurt anyone, and we're all going to be there anyway. I first thought that she was embarrassed with her finances being tight, but she has no problem giving my mother her list with items well over our discussed gift budget.Now, She is currently not talking to my mother for some unknown reason, but I digress.

My question is whether anyone thinks that giving gifts can be selfish?

Also any advice on my current problem is welcome.

If i understand correctly the “selfish” part is that your mother wants the kids to open the presents in a certain way even though the kids themselves dont want to do it that way. Im not saying this is selfish im just explaining my interpretation. Your mom probably wants to see each of the childrens reactions to each of the gifts (im guessing) whereas your sisters kids just want to open their presents at their own pace (probably hyperspeed) and your sister doesnt want to make them follow your moms protocol.

Is this right?

Hey Vaziel,

That sounds like quite the mess of happenings to juggle. I'd be a fool if I said I could interpret the situation accurately, but at least from my perspective it seems like there is some unresolved suffering, of some sort, manifesting and is being displaced as issues with gifts.


The best advice I could give to you is the simply be kind and be present for both your mother and your sister. Somewhere there's hurt... and there's potential you may never understand its source, but you can be the benefactor of love so that the relationship can foster. We can't make people change their doings, but we can be that lighted path and sense of hope.

On the one hand, sure, giving gifts can have selfish motives. I can give you something in order to create a sense of indebtedness (blatantly selfish) or just because I enjoy feeling a little superior (less blatant) or because I will enjoy seeing you happy (probably least blatant). And your mother is probably doing at least a little of that: I am comfortable saying she is looking forward to seeing her family being excited about and enjoying her gifts. There's some selfishness involved in that.

But it sounds like your sister has something else going on. I don't want to speculate about people I don't know, but it sounds like there's probably some underlying conflict with your mother that is being played out over holiday presents and family holiday time. The only advice I can give is to have an honest conversation with your sister about what outcome she's hoping to achieve. Remember she is trying to make the best decision she can in the moment, whether or not you agree with it.

Sounds like the consensus here is that, perhaps, the gifts are being given for the sake of getting that 'feel good' feeling of giving... rather than the act of giving itself.

In the end, if you won't feel good even if you never see them with the gift, is it really selfless gift giving? Even if you never receive thanks for it?

OB1Shinobi
I am not sure. I am just as confused. I think it had something to do with the amount of gifts that my mother would give out and in-turn the gifts effects the amount of time.

thomaswfaulkner
I am sure there is more to the story that I am not getting. I am currently getting only my mother's side of the story, which is my first problem.

Kasumi
My mother is definitely giving the gifts because she wants to see us opening them and then she gets her dopamine, serotonin, and oxytocin fix. My major flaw in this conflict is I haven't heard my sister's side of this story and why she feels this way.

Arisaig
It seems like I have to play mediator and try to bring this conflict to a close. Gently of course.


Thank you for your responses.

Vaziel_Sorel wrote: I am currently dealing with drama with my family. I have a Mother who likes to give gifts for Christmas and a Sister that thinks my mother is being selfish and that opening "that many presents" is a waste of time for her and her family. She claims that her kids don't like the tradition of each person opening a gift one at a time. While I do agree that it can be time consuming, it makes my mother happy, it doesn't hurt anyone, and we're all going to be there anyway. I first thought that she was embarrassed with her finances being tight, but she has no problem giving my mother her list with items well over our discussed gift budget.Now, She is currently not talking to my mother for some unknown reason, but I digress.

My question is whether anyone thinks that giving gifts can be selfish?

Also any advice on my current problem is welcome.

It really depends on the circumstances. What you describe sounds much more like a tradition, not a personal preference. For my family it's kind of the same thing because that's how my inlaws do it. That's their tradition. And it does give the giver a chance to have that momentary connection with the person receiving the gift. And in that moment each person can say thanks. This tradition could very well breed a competitive spirit... how got the best gift... who gives the best gifts... and so forth. And if you want to go broke playing that game you can, but children are the ultimate equalizers and if the gift isn't thoughtful enough they're more likely to play with the box it came in.

And your instincts could definitely be correct. Christmas time can easily cause depression and remind people of what they don't have; whether money to buy gifts, or family or friends to share the holidays with. I would recommend that if her money is tight then others might be gently influenced to also give less expensive but maybe more personalized perhaps more sentimental gifts and emphasize the importance of the immaterial gifts such as time, effort, and love. Those things have even more value.

Vaziel_Sorel wrote: OB1Shinobi
I am not sure. I am just as confused. I think it had something to do with the amount of gifts that my mother would give out and in-turn the gifts effects the amount of time.

thomaswfaulkner
I am sure there is more to the story that I am not getting. I am currently getting only my mother's side of the story, which is my first problem.

Kasumi
My mother is definitely giving the gifts because she wants to see us opening them and then she gets her dopamine, serotonin, and oxytocin fix. My major flaw in this conflict is I haven't heard my sister's side of this story and why she feels this way.

Arisaig
It seems like I have to play mediator and try to bring this conflict to a close. Gently of course.


Thank you for your responses.

I think it would be fine to talk to both your sister and your mother and let each of them explain how they see the situation, what they want to do, and why they feel the way they feel. Listen to each without arguing or interjecting. “I hear you, thank you for explaining”. At a later time you might come back to each and say “i think she sees it like this and i have to admit i can see her point, too. I sure hope you two can work this out and the whole family can enjoy christmas”

Then let them work it out- or not. Lol. This is not your fight and you dont have to be the referee. IF YOU WANT TO, you can make an attempt to bridge the gap between their perspectives, but be aware that one or both of them may be uncompromising and if so, theres nothing you can do about that. Love them both and let them each know youre not against them, but dont get drawn into their mess beyond a reasonable, neutral effort at diplomacy. People have to work out their own issues and if theres a real power struggle or festering resentment motivating this disagreement, youre probably not going to fix that.

Ad do your best to enjoy christmas and the kids, whatever your mom and sister do.
Thats my advice.

OB1Shinobi wrote: OB1Shinobi


Then let them work it out- or not. Lol. This is not your fight and you dont have to be the referee. IF YOU WANT TO, you can make an attempt to bridge the gap between their perspectives, but be aware that one or both of them may be uncompromising and if so, theres nothing you can do about that. Love them both and let them each know youre not against them, but dont get drawn into their mess beyond a reasonable, neutral effort at diplomacy. People have to work out there own issues and if theres a real power struggle or festering resentment motivating this disagreement, youre probably not going to fix that.

Ob, you hit the nail on the head with this one.

Sometimes accepting the fact that there's nothing more we can do than love and be there for them is a hard truth to swallow. But it's worth that piece of mind knowing that we can't change that which can be changed.

Giving anything to anyone is always selfish. Allow me to explain.

When one gives (or more to the point, helps others) it always has an effect on the giver. In a broader sense, considering that we are all a part of a whole, a piece of the universe in which we are united, what you give to others you give to yourself, because you and I, and everyone alive are ONE.

_Vergere_ wrote: Giving anything to anyone is always selfish. Allow me to explain.

When one gives (or more to the point, helps others) it always has an effect on the giver. In a broader sense, considering that we are all a part of a whole, a piece of the universe in which we are united, what you give to others you give to yourself, because you and I, and everyone alive are ONE.

Can you clarify further? Because under this there would be no such thing as selflessness because that would involve sacrifice/giving. And if there is no selflessness how does the opposite exist? So I admit to being confused.

under this there would be no such thing as selflessness because that would involve sacrifice/giving. And if there is no selflessness how does the opposite exist?

Exactly the right question. The answer is the elimination of duality. Selfless/selfish, me/you, good/evil, light/dark...

I don't claim to have evolved beyond duality, but talking about it and putting it into practice certainly helps.

For me - holiday time is tough. What it seems like to my family is every one is way out of balance during these times. Just the way we perceive it. Going to family get togeather sand party’s and things can take its toll on us as a family with different morals and different practices - not wrong just different. My boy asks why can’t I run around like everyone else or do the same things... he’s beginning to understand but the complexity is that every one has so many different ways - how do I be me and allow others to enjoy them selfs during the holidays.? That’s one of those million dolla questions we must be able to answer for ourselfs. My hope is that we all find or make our balance this holiday season - so to answer the question directly - anything can be selfish - intent and applications make things selfish or not in my own practice. Happy holidays and may the Force be with you as you seek or make your balance of it.

_Vergere_ wrote: Giving anything to anyone is always selfish. Allow me to explain.

When one gives (or more to the point, helps others) it always has an effect on the giver. In a broader sense, considering that we are all a part of a whole, a piece of the universe in which we are united, what you give to others you give to yourself, because you and I, and everyone alive are ONE.

I have to say i disagree with practically every idea in this post lol. Nothing personal against you.

1) all actions “have an effect” on the person performing them, that doesnt mean a person cannot act in a selfess way. Being selfless means that you act for the benefit of the other regardless of the benefit or consequences to yourself. Maybe you will be rewarded with a good feeling or with social recognition but thats irrelevant to the original motive - which was the benefit of the other person.

2) we may be “connected” in any number of ways but we are not one identity and there is a huge separation between us. If you stub your toe, not only will it not hurt me but it might even make me laugh. Unless youre not in my field of vision when it happens, in which case i wont even know of it.

OB1Shinobi wrote: I have to say i disagree with practically every idea in this post lol. Nothing personal against you.

Perhaps our differences are merely linguistic. But let me ask you this: where do I end and you begin? Physically, of course you may simply look at your body and see where it ends. What about mentally? Spiritually? Can you see your mind? Can you see your spirit? How far do they reach? How limited are they? ARE they limited?

Almost everything we do is selfish to some degree. This primarily goes for planned actions - when we buy gifts for someone, we tend to have a deep-seated, partly natural expectation that or imagination that when the other person opens the present, that person's joy will make you happy as well. It's very hard work to control these expectations - in Buddhism this is a core concept (Right intention, right thought, right action). If all three of them are completely realized, selfishness is conquered.

However, I do believe that selfishness is innate to us as well, albeit on a different cognitive level - acting without hesitation, for example to save someone from a bad accident by instinctively pushing that person out of the path of an oncoming bus, could be considered truly selfless. This is also very unique to the human species. Similar phenomena can also be seen in other animals, however: the relationship between a mother (and sometimes also the father) and her child is typically a selfless one.

_Vergere_ wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote: Can you see your mind? Can you see your spirit? How far do they reach? How limited are they? ARE they limited?

Yes they are absolutely limited in the sense they are not connected. Just as our bodies are limited so are these things. I cant experience your thoughts and if my spirit exists it cant feel your experiences from your point of view. What you are suggesting here is really just meaningless rhetoric.

My question would be... even if it is or isn't selfish... so what?

Is there a point to all of this dissecting other than finding a nitty label to describe the situation?

Manu wrote: My question would be... even if it is or isn't selfish... so what?

Is there a point to all of this dissecting other than finding a nitty label to describe the situation?

Lol, I guess it really doesn't matter. People will be people, and we can never truly understand the motives of other people or their rationale.

_Vergere_ wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote: I have to say i disagree with practically every idea in this post lol. Nothing personal against you.

Perhaps our differences are merely linguistic. But let me ask you this: where do I end and you begin? Physically, of course you may simply look at your body and see where it ends. What about mentally? Spiritually? Can you see your mind? Can you see your spirit? How far do they reach? How limited are they? ARE they limited?

Kyrin explained the first part. We may be connected in some way but we are distinct; evidence is that dont know each others thoughts and cant jump into each others experiences, a a general rule.
If the light from two candles overlap, they might be connected but the candles are not ONE light- each is a light, in an of itself.

Now i have a question; do you just take it for granted that there is a difference between “mind” and “spirit”? Can you explain where one ends and the other begins? How do you know?