Masculinity as a Mental health issue

To any man attending this course i have only one thing to say



Have they gone completely bonkers??

https://pjmedia.com/trending/university-of-texas-to-treat-masculinity-as-a-mental-health-issue/


The Counseling and Mental Health Center at the University of Texas at Austin recently launched a new program to help male students "take control over their gender identity and develop a healthy sense of masculinity."

Treating masculinity as if it were a mental health crisis, "MasculinUT" is organized by the school's counseling staff and most recently organized a poster series encouraging students to develop a "healthy model of masculinity."

The program is predicated on a critique of so-called "restrictive masculinity." Men, the program argues, suffer when they are told to "act like a man" or when they are encouraged to fulfill traditional gender roles, such as being "successful" or "the breadwinner."

Though you might enjoy "taking care of people" or being "active," MasculinUT warns that many of these attributes are actually dangerous, claiming that "traditional ideas of masculinity place men into rigid (or restrictive) boxes [which]... prevent them from developing their emotional maturity."

"If you are a male student at UT reading this right now, we hope that learning about this helps you not to feel guilty about having participated in these definitions of masculinity, and instead feel empowered to break the cycle!" the program offers.

Though the school seems to justify this by claiming that masculinity can cause men to lash out at other people and themselves, the school did not respond to a request for comment to clarify.
There is no evidence that masculinity itself contributes to violence. Universities that run similar programs, such as UNC-Chapel Hill and Northwestern, have admitted that their programming isn't supported by any evidence.

So...let me get this straight , no evidence and yet condemnation of the Masculine ...

Overall, the program looks to be an attempt to encourage them to do their own thing, free of boxes, and to discourage bullying. They probably want to limit comments about shaving vaginas should a guy choose to take up ballet or do anything deemed remotely feminine.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3597769/ analyzes a collection of different studies, some of which were likely used to justify and influence the program. I recall hearing/reading the general gist of some of them.

https://cmhc.utexas.edu/vav/vav_masculinut_restrictive.html has a much more indepth explanation of what the program is about. It doesn't seem to be saying being masculine is negative, but that the pursuit of masculine, done in a restrictive manner, can lead to unhealthy suppression and expression of self. The idea is that guys can go ahead and do what they like and that is not a threat to their masculinity. It's the boys version of girls stepping out of a secretarial box and still remaining feminine.


Some of their bulletpoints:

To help explain what unhealthy masculinity looks like, MasculinUT has summarized academic research examining the lives of men and boys into the following five unhealthy attitudes and behaviors:

Patterns of Restrictive Masculinity

-Restrictive masculinity is taken for granted and is often expected of male and male-identified students. The harm that this can cause to the self (such as high-risk drinking or reluctance to seek out help) and harm against others (such as sexual harassment, sexual assault and other forms of abuse and violence) is often ignored or condoned by believing that "boys will be boys."
-Unhealthy masculinity can restrict the emotional development of students, yet recognizes aggression and violence as common and normalized behavior for men.
-Unhealthy masculinity works by excluding students who are judged not to measure up to the values of "real men." This is especially pronounced in the exclusion of feminine gender expressions, gay, bisexual and queer men, and gender-expansive students, which perpetuates sexism, homophobia, biphobia and transphobia.
To prove who is a "real man" means proving who is not a "real man." This can take the shape of competition between men, which often results in devaluing and/or hurting some men in order to appear more masculine. If unhealthy masculinity is not questioned, it could lead to racist, classist, ableist, and other violent behavior to devalue other students in the competition to prove who is a "real man."
-Unhealthy masculinity works to exclude any "femininity" from a masculine identity. This can create challenges when students want to have relationships on campus (platonic or romantic). A lack of empathy and a devaluation of femininity can result in unhealthy behavior and risks the occurrence of relationship and sexual violence. It also perpetuates the exclusion of women from academic and extracurricular activities.
-Unhealthy masculinity is not just restrictive because it denies a range of different things to students (such as emotional development, behaviors, hobbies, relationships, etc.), but it also condones some harmful behavior as natural or otherwise acceptable. Restrictive masculinity promotes distorted and fundamentally untrue ideas about what it means to be a masculine person:

-MYTH: Men have uncontrollable sexuality: this creates pressure in men to prove their heterosexuality (even in the cases of gay, bisexual, queer and transgender men), creating anxiety if relationships with women do not succeed, and increasing the risk of sexual and relationship violence if students truly believe that men's sexuality should be voracious or men should be entitled to women's sexuality.
-MYTH: Men should be fiercely independent: what this does is compel men not to seek help from others and feel solely responsible for any challenges or problems they are facing. This can affect the mental and emotional health of men.
-MYTH: Men are naturally aggressive: because emotions are restricted, one emotion that is acceptable in restrictive models of masculinity is aggression. Anger, frustration, sadness, and even love can often be channeled as aggression or violence if male-identified students do not develop other emotions.
-MYTH: Masculinity is only heterosexual: often, masculinity has to be proven through heterosexual relationships. It may create pressure in men to have a heterosexual relationship, and create anxiety if this is not the case. This marginalizes male students who are part of the LGBTQ community, as well as female students, who wish to identify as masculine.
-MYTH: Masculinity is the opposite of femininity: this myth assumes that there are two acceptable ways of existing: as a masculine person or a feminine person. The myth is unrealistic, because it assumes that masculinity and femininity are opposites and mutually exclusive. Feminine men are devalued under this myth, as well as masculine women. However, to be a successful person, a student has to inevitably engage in behavior that can be both masculine and feminine. If a student does believe masculinity and femininity are opposites, they may engage in behavior that pushes away and devalues anything feminine (even within themselves).

Overall, the program looks to be an attempt to encourage them to do their own thing, free of boxes, and to discourage bullying. They probably want to limit comments about shaving vaginas should a guy choose to take up ballet or do anything deemed remotely feminine.

No , and since when is ballet feminine? You know that is the problem with it , i dont see a lot of things as feminine or masculine , the audacity to define masculine as they do is appaling. This is just another attempt of brainwashing.

I see it as an attempt to tell people they can do with their lives as they like, and that they are no less masculine(or feminine) for the choices they make, nor does anybody elses masculinity or femininity affect their own.

Good for you for not seeing things as masculine/feminine. However, society does, and over centuries has laid out very strict guidelines. Programs like this simply push others to see the world as undivided as you do.

Kehta Nier wrote: I see it as an attempt to tell people they can do with their lives as they like, and that they are no less masculine(or feminine) for the choices they make, nor does anybody elses masculinity or femininity affect their own.

Good for you for not seeing things as masculine/feminine. However, society does, and over centuries has laid out very strict guidelines. Programs like this simply push others to see the world as undivided as you do.

Good for you that you think its an attempt to tell people they can live the lives they want , i really hope so ...i for one am very sceptical about it and will look further into it ...

I read an article once about countries doing just this, and it backfired. They tried to narrow the gender divide by teaching about it, trying to make every workplace demographic match the demographic of the community.

In the end, highlighting our differences in an effort to blend them makes the divide greater. These same counties now see more polarised workplaces than before, where many jobs are either solely male or female, with very little overlap.

Trying to remove these gender gaps will not work if we continue to focus on what separates us and pointing out the other's genetically based faults will only widen the divide.

I would enjoy reading that article.

I read an article once about countries doing just this, and it backfired

I hope you did not have to read it in Dutch because we are one of the countries where this backfired, It only caused more division and confusing and people who were worse of than before. Accepting eachother , fighting bullying , make it very clear to kids that one can be what one wants to be is much more important than issues of masculinity and femininity.

I dont know if any of you seen the movie Billie Elliot and the fight of this boy to go and live his dream and the way the men in the movie change their minds because of his determination.

SO in general , Please dont discard Masculinity just because you dont understand it , its hard enough as it is for men , ...and women

Kehta Nier wrote: I would enjoy reading that article.

Sure luvv here it is

http://en.aup.nl/wosmedia/3700/nr_1_-_de_studie_van_mannelijkheid.pdf

Kehta Nier wrote: I would enjoy reading that article.

Tried finding it, but now I feel it was something on the news. But here is some evidence towards my claim.

As we know, the Netherlands is super progressive, way ahead of most of the world in many regards.

But then we have this report from late last year: The Netherlands Gender Divide

As we can see just under a decade ago they were near the top of the list, but have been steadily declining. Many attribute this heightened divide because of the fact they are so progressive. In leaning so far to the left, its whip-lashing back.

Sorry, but neither of those articles make the point that this sort of education led to a marked increase in the divide. The second looks only at ratings of the divide and of literacy.

And the first...

Well. Certainly doesn't make that point, nor does it carry any sort of an unbiased view.

It is a development that can partly be explained by technological and economic changes - the shift to a post-industrial service economy, the introduction of technical aids that lighten household work, the invention and the spreading of contraceptives - but which has also been deliberately stimulated from various sources. In connection with this, changing views on how men and women behave towards each other and the manners became more egalitarian (Wouters2005). Men lost power and privileges. In their profession they had to tolerate more and more women as equals beside them or, worse still, recognize them as superior. In their families they could less and less take their heads and claim traditional rights as husbands ('rape in marriage' was punishable, physical violence led faster to separation). If they still had feelings of superiority towards women, they could show them less and less and apply them in their dealings with them. Equality between men and women became increasingly the prevailing moral principle. It is obvious that this development has led to confusion, frustration and resistance among many men. Beliefs about what a 'real man' is supposed to be have become more unclear. Still 'masculinity' is associated with strength, courage and fortitude, still some men are sometimes admired for these qualities, but as6 | Sociology 3 [2007] 1This article from Sociology is published by Boom Lemma publishers and is intended for the University of Amsterdam as guiding ideals to distinguish themselves from women, seem to have dismissed them. Has that not led to serious identity problems, a 'crisis of masculinity'? That is what several authors claim. For some, this crisis is a frustrated feminists and their feeble masculine followers created wrongdoing, which must be undone as soon as possible: men must regain their true masculinity, claim their time-honored rights and again be daring to be dominant, to the happiness of both themselves and the women henheen.

One could argue that the first article makes an excellent point of establishing why the program is necessary.
Sex is not a right and when a woman, any woman, even a wife, says no, it is rape.
Physical violence is not a right.
Equality is a moral principle.
Feminists aren't frustrated and men who identify as feminists aren't feeble.
And finally... Not all males are happy in the dominant box, nor are all females happy in the submissive one.

Yes. Just a few paragraphs make an excellent point for why this kind of program isn't necessarily a terrible thing.

Kehta Nier wrote: Sorry, but neither of those articles make the point that this sort of education led to a marked increase in the divide. The second looks only at ratings of the divide and of literacy.

And the first...

Well. Certainly doesn't make that point, nor does it carry any sort of an unbiased view.

It is a development that can partly be explained by technological and economic changes - the shift to a post-industrial service economy, the introduction of technical aids that lighten household work, the invention and the spreading of contraceptives - but which has also been deliberately stimulated from various sources. In connection with this, changing views on how men and women behave towards each other and the manners became more egalitarian (Wouters2005). Men lost power and privileges. In their profession they had to tolerate more and more women as equals beside them or, worse still, recognize them as superior. In their families they could less and less take their heads and claim traditional rights as husbands ('rape in marriage' was punishable, physical violence led faster to separation). If they still had feelings of superiority towards women, they could show them less and less and apply them in their dealings with them. Equality between men and women became increasingly the prevailing moral principle. It is obvious that this development has led to confusion, frustration and resistance among many men. Beliefs about what a 'real man' is supposed to be have become more unclear. Still 'masculinity' is associated with strength, courage and fortitude, still some men are sometimes admired for these qualities, but as6 | Sociology 3 [2007] 1This article from Sociology is published by Boom Lemma publishers and is intended for the University of Amsterdam as guiding ideals to distinguish themselves from women, seem to have dismissed them. Has that not led to serious identity problems, a 'crisis of masculinity'? That is what several authors claim. For some, this crisis is a frustrated feminists and their feeble masculine followers created wrongdoing, which must be undone as soon as possible: men must regain their true masculinity, claim their time-honored rights and again be daring to be dominant, to the happiness of both themselves and the women henheen.

One could argue that the first article makes an excellent point of establishing why the program is necessary.
Sex is not a right and when a woman, any woman, even a wife, says no, it is rape.
Physical violence is not a right.
Equality is a moral principle.
Feminists aren't frustrated and men who identify as feminists aren't feeble.
And finally... Not all males are happy in the dominant box, nor are all females happy in the submissive one.

Yes. Just a few paragraphs make an excellent point for why this kind of program isn't necessarily a terrible thing.

Sure and that is why they are terminated here , to connect rape to masculinity is sickening , rape is power driven and to say rape is masculin is just completely beside the point. No = No for everyone.

And no one said you had to choose a box , when these experiments were conducted in the Netherlands it was noticed that anxiety went up , not down. That confusion went up, not down. That even thought the INTEND was good , and maybe would work in another culture , it does not for the Dutch.

And i strongly doubt that these experiments will give different results in the States

Your article does not cite any experiments or studies, only other articles that say the same as it- that “men must regain their time honored rights”. As I said before, if this article is any indication, then programs like this are a good thing.

Kehta Nier wrote: Your article does not cite any experiments or studies, only other articles that say the same as it- that “men must regain their time honored rights”. As I said before, if this article is any indication, then programs like this are a good thing.

Then the only thing for now is to agree to disagree...i really think its a bad idea

This is a clip we show in the Netherlands , maybe you understand where i am coming from

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BVh9Sr_aQs

Apparently there are about 250k taxi drivers in the USA.

When we get driverless cars, they'll all have to come up with weird jobs to justify their existence too.


Edit: Originally my main beef wasn't with the philosophy of masculinity as mental health issue, because I just don't care what people do with their minds in their own time, it was with it being an industry.


Having clicked (possibly baited) around that PJ website for a few articles, my beef is now with that website, and with my beloved Serenity for being partly responsible for minutes of my life being stolen by those monosynaptic cave dwellers.

Jeans 15 times stronger than steel?!?! What!!!!

I would definitely recommend giving those bulletpoints I quoted another look through. I don’t think the program has anything to say about the generic rough and tumble and tree climbing and exploration of childhood being a bad thing.

I can read them until i want to scratch my eyes out, these experiments were conducted and they were a failure, i wish them good luck in the US

Hey, I love ballet!!!! And had seasons passes for several years while I could be bothered the hour drive in and out to watch it. It's the most fictional Jedi-esk display of timing, movement and strength you can you can watch, and they use swords often as well.

Plus mental health is not a negative thing. Mental disease could be said to be, but mental health is an issue everyone should take seriously. We all have some measure of mental health, whether its good, bad or changing too fast to know :silly:

The idea should probably be about defining appropriate existence of strength in a persons character - as its too often tied into self image which most easily translates across to inter-personality. And its that which seems to manifest as exertion of authority and testing of each other. Even the idea that we are 'strong' is a relative thing, as it develops from the natural process of defining ourselves by comparison with other-selves around us.

And the less a person has going for them in other areas, the more they might rely on that strength to feel worth anything at all.... or have a willingness to exert strength beyond what might be normal in the absence of any real idea.
So things like 'act like a man' can be easily interpreted as 'be strong' as a normal form of self for men. Which is really over stating the importance of the impact of testosterone.... something which is a big element in a guys life without society dramatizing it. Men have like over 10 times the amount as women AFAIK, ten times is a big difference - as its a bit like gunpowder, it is useful for its purpose but a bit of overkill the rest of the time.

How this might become a degradation on a persons mental health is that society and personal relationships do not really have a place for it in the same way that it is often pushed into guys as the male standard. It had great importance in hunter gather type societies, slightly more in farming societies, slightly less in industrial societies, but significantly less in post industrial technological societies.

But it's not that men have less of a place, its just the mischaraterisation of men as being about exaggerating their strength advantage as their role in society and therefore the best path for their mental health. Though the individual adult must take responsibility for their actions and so IMO it's no-one's fault at the end of the day except for the the individual bloke doing it, but IMO its why the jails are full of blokes and not a 50/50 mix and a lot of normal acting guys are really quite nasty b@5tards truth be told.... deep down resentment of not being stronger and so taking whatever avenue of power they can get their hands on so they can squeeze it to death to prove to themselves their own self worth :S

A linked page from the OP to the Uni about it is;
https://cmhc.utexas.edu/vav/vav_masculinut_restrictive.html

Not something I'd heard of before, but it makes sense to my Buddhist sentimentality..... but what do I know, apparently that murderer in Toronto the other day went driving into people in his rented van because he was something called an 'incel' and wanted to kill 'stacys' and 'chads'. Unfortunately it is evident that distorted masculinity does have a place in the mental illness fields.

Yed Adder ...Distorted masculinity....anything distorted could be seen as a mental health issue.