Philosophy is dead, or, my Jediism is what you need to believe, or else.

So I have been told by several senior members of this temple tonight, including a Knight and a pastor that philosophy is dead. That when we explore philosophical scenarios that we could possibly equate to real life that this is a completely irrelevant undertaking because these situations and these people do not really exist in real life so there is no benefit in exploring them philosophically. This just flies in the face of most of the greatest philosophers of the last two millennia as far as I am concerned. The arrogance displayed in these dismissals is dumbfounding to me.

So i must ask you, are these the sorts of people you want to learn from, to follow, to be associated with? These people are demanding you conform to their versions of reality and spirituality and dismiss out of hand any alternate versions or opinions to the contrary. They demand the enforcement of their version of reality even to the point of chastising those that question them with comments belittling and dismissing them. I just don't find this acceptable behaviour.

I just don't find this acceptable behaviour.

I guess it's not for everyone. Goodbye and good luck!

ren wrote:

I just don't find this acceptable behaviour.

I guess it's not for everyone. Goodbye and good luck!

So you condone, even embrace this elitism? Good to know, not like I didn't already from you but nice to have it spelled out so clearly. Thanks.

Hey Kyrin!
From my point of view to state That philosophical stuff is irrelevant because it does not exist in real world is the funniest thing. Because the person saying that is reacting to this "non existing" thing which shouldnt have any influence on them following their logic.
Anyways that being said I am sure their is something to be learn from evryone around here. Just pick what suits you and when you feel that some people demand things from you that do not seem to be appropriate maybe you should just ignore it. Let's not sacralised the teaching body too much. Dumbness is present everywherein this world at all levels. Even in ourselves. And the dumbest person to you could prove to be a valuable teacher to another. I ve been working a lot lately on my book and it would seem that dumbness always contains intellignece and intelligence always contains dumbness. So maybe when someone tells you that philosophy is dead you can both deem it a stupid advice and try to get something good out of it like try to also act on the material world.

My pitchfork is at the cleaners.....

What do you want Kyrin?

Sometimes I agree with you, sometimes I don't, but that's not really what I'm interested in right now.

What does this thread serve?

Even if your point (whatever it is) is valid, this is really B grade rabble rousing.

I expected far better rabble rousing from you, if I'm honest.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ukak8P2vY

I didn't get the same takeaway message from those earlier exchanges, but then I wasn't catching therm in real time so it might be easier for me to take a position of detachment. But. Philosophy isn't dead. No one has the exclusive be-all end-all on what Jediism is; someone actually claiming they do is IMO the clearest sign that they prolly don't, but thankfully those folks don't often come here.

Spoiler'd because someone might not enjoy it.

Which is sort of the point :silly:

(It's pretty safe up to 48 seconds, and the point is made by then. The rest is a bit blue, and doesn't really contribute anything to the issue)

I wouldn't say that philosophy is "dead" ... indeed, to even consider whether it is or not is a philosophical exploration. Scientific inquiry is not at all extra-philosophical. Philosophy came about when we started getting curious about how the "world" (for lack of a better term for anything perceptibly 'outside' our skins) does the stuff we perceive, how we start getting knowledge about these processes and then reconciling that knowledge with our ways of giving phenomena 'meaning'. Philosophy is far from dead ; even those who claim that it is, or would like very much to kill it, have to use philosophy - to the extent of their talents to do so - to make that claim. It makes only a peculiar and comical sort of sense to use a dead thing to kill that self-same thing .... doesn't it ? Sort of like pulling a bone out of a dead man to bludgeon the dead man to death ....

With regard to "spirituality" : this is a misleading term, and really ought to be used very sparingly. Phenomenological existence is a characteristic we all share, no matter how divergent our views (or our preferred ideas) about it are. We often confuse the 'spiritual' with what has been presented to us by just another schema of mental processes. And that is not a bad thing -- that is a indispensable part of how we 'make meaning'. The 'presentation' of these schema are 'representations' (models) of what one is trying to 'present' which is largely ineffable. As such, "spiritual truth" is an oxymoron in its usual sense. When we begin harbouring favourite ideology to quibble over, then there is very little 'spirit' left in what we are saying. The transcendent cannot be grasped with the conscious mind, it can only be vaguely insinuated by allegory (art, broadly speaking), but never proven rationally. Indeed, to be consumed by the need to justify the meaning of phenomenal existence which one cannot be deprived of is a very fragile meaning to make - whether philosophy is dead or not.

I've read through the conversation in question a few times now. Much like Atticus, I do not see their responses equating to what you say here, Kyrin. In fact, I think an unbiased re-read might be of benefit on your part. Also disagreement doesn't automatically mean people demand you to conform to their "truth". You most of all should know this as conflict is how you seek growth.
As far as philosophy goes, it is far from dead. But that doesn't necessarily make all philosophy useful. Philosophy is most useful when it's open and free. When we pile on restrictions in order to get but one answer it becomes self serving. What is the point? Where is the benefit separate from pride? Where is the growth? It's the questioning of absolutes through free and open philosophy that sparks the evolution of our thoughts. But because it is free and open you cannot expect everyone to arrive at the same location.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: So I have been told by several senior members of this temple tonight, including a Knight and a pastor that philosophy is dead. That when we explore philosophical scenarios that we could possibly equate to real life that this is a completely irrelevant undertaking because these situations and these people do not really exist in real life so there is no benefit in exploring them philosophically. This just flies in the face of most of the greatest philosophers of the last two millennia as far as I am concerned. The arrogance displayed in these dismissals is dumbfounding to me.

So i must ask you, are these the sorts of people you want to learn from, to follow, to be associated with? These people are demanding you conform to their versions of reality and spirituality and dismiss out of hand any alternate versions or opinions to the contrary. They demand the enforcement of their version of reality even to the point of chastising those that question them with comments belittling and dismissing them. I just don't find this acceptable behaviour.

If I may...
from my seat on the sidelines I have watched and witnessed several of these "interactions" to which you refer.
I feel that these conversations you are trying to have, under the guise of philosophy reveal more about your own inner workings than even you may realize.
Philosophy is not dead (you are still able to think for yourself, society has not taken that from us) but the situations and events that you are attempting to discuss are the product of an anxious and worried mind.
Hypotheticals exist in the anxiety inducing quicksand pit that is, what I refer to as, the "What-ifs".
As one with fairly severe anxiety myself, I can completely relate to this land of hypothetical situations. And I too have attempted to rationalize my own fears and worries as a source of my "philosophy" for living. (but are we really?)
Our amygdala (feel free to look it up if you wish) along side our own Ego produces these wildly imaginative, yet seemingly realistic situations in our mind that we occupy our time with under the delusion that "well, IF this does happen, I'll be prepared to deal with it."
This constant barrage of intrusive thoughts and worry only keep you trapped within the well fortified "safety" of your mind. It feels as though our active grasp of the actual fears and things to worry about in our world is a philosophy to live by- if you take a step back, you may find that too much of your time is spent in this "land of hypotheticals".
Look around you, actually around you- look at the NOW, you may be amazed at what is happening beyond the quicksand...and you aren't really trapped there.
What-ifs exist to keep us aware in the need of a fight or flight response---but to try to live in a world where that is primary voice in the mind is not only fearful and anxiety ridden...it's exhausting. (I know, I still get stuck there sometimes).

Please don't give up on the Temple Kyrin, there is a larger following of people who still believe in you here. You and your ideas are as valid as anyone else's here but the Ego, and the amygdala don't like to be told to sit down and allow the mind to think for itself. That is what many of these altercations seems to be (to me anyways).
You come to the table with wonderful questions and then the conversations fall into upset and altercation, not because no one wants to speak with you; not because your ideas are invalid, but because they (we) are trying to help you see beyond the Hypotheticals. See beyond the "What-ifs".
Some lessons can be learned the easy way--some teachers make it seems simple to us; and some are there to push you and make it hard because the lesson itself IS hard to learn--that doesn't mean give up. Be strong as your ideologies prove that you are and spend some more time here.
The temple as a whole only benefits from more and more people with their own ideas. Including yours, but lets try to get beyond the "what-ifs" and the hypothetical situations and actually have some discussion.
I'm sorry that you feel shut down at every turn. I know within my heart of hearts that is not the Temple's goal Kyrin. the Temple does not strive, does not live, to turn others away. If it did then we would be no different than the rest of the "organized religions".
Thank you for your time.

Please don't quit. Please don't think the entire world is against you. Take some time to rest and recharge. Have a place to refocus and find your balance again. Benefit from re charge can be more than just rest. If you need - feel free to contact the clergy. We are here to serve you and if confidentiality is needed , you can be covered under that as well. May the Force be with you .

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Please don't quit. Please don't think the entire world is against you. Take some time to rest and recharge. Have a place to refocus and find your balance again. Benefit from re charge can be more than just rest. If you need - feel free to contact the clergy. We are here to serve you and if confidentiality is needed , you can be covered under that as well. May the Force be with you .

Why is everyone assuming Kyrin is leaving or wants to leave? Remain on topic, not make it about what you want, everyone.

Arisaig wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Please don't quit. Please don't think the entire world is against you. Take some time to rest and recharge. Have a place to refocus and find your balance again. Benefit from re charge can be more than just rest. If you need - feel free to contact the clergy. We are here to serve you and if confidentiality is needed , you can be covered under that as well. May the Force be with you .

Why is everyone assuming Kyrin is leaving or wants to leave? Remain on topic, not make it about what you want, everyone.

Encouragment can come and will come from anywhere and any one. We have no reason to ask for it some times.

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote:

Arisaig wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Please don't quit. Please don't think the entire world is against you. Take some time to rest and recharge. Have a place to refocus and find your balance again. Benefit from re charge can be more than just rest. If you need - feel free to contact the clergy. We are here to serve you and if confidentiality is needed , you can be covered under that as well. May the Force be with you .

Why is everyone assuming Kyrin is leaving or wants to leave? Remain on topic, not make it about what you want, everyone.

Encouragment can come and will come from anywhere and any one. We have no reason to ask for it some times.

Oh okay. Then please don't leave Carlos. Reach out the the clergy if you need help!

See? Unfounded. Instead of deflecting the original question in an effort to appear wise or helpful, how about you answer it?

It's not a want at all...please read my thread post before you accuse me of such things.
The way that I perceived the tone of the OP it seems that Kyrin is on the verge of such action. That's all

Arisaig....that's rude

Athena_Undomiel wrote: It's not a want at all...please read my thread post before you accuse me of such things.
The way that I perceived the tone of the OP it seems that Kyrin is on the verge of such action. That's all

I have read this thread, and am not accusing people of things happening in other threads. Doing that makes for a extremely messy forum.

EDIT: I would also appreciate if you didn't call me rude because of your assumptions. Thank you.

What is the diffrence between hypothetical statements and philosophy? Is there a diffrence?

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: What is the diffrence between hypothetical statements and philosophy? Is there a diffrence?

Yes.

"Man, I wonder what I would do if I had infinite money?" A hypothetical statement that isn't philosophy.

Edit: Or even better, the point of the thread: Philosophy is Dead. Leaves no room for wiggling there. It is a hypothetical statement that isn't philosophy.

Arisaig wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote:

Arisaig wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Please don't quit. Please don't think the entire world is against you. Take some time to rest and recharge. Have a place to refocus and find your balance again. Benefit from re charge can be more than just rest. If you need - feel free to contact the clergy. We are here to serve you and if confidentiality is needed , you can be covered under that as well. May the Force be with you .

Why is everyone assuming Kyrin is leaving or wants to leave? Remain on topic, not make it about what you want, everyone.

Encouragment can come and will come from anywhere and any one. We have no reason to ask for it some times.

Oh okay. Then please don't leave Carlos. Reach out the the clergy if you need help!

See? Unfounded. Instead of deflecting the original question in an effort to appear wise or helpful, how about you answer it?

Done